Ancestors, Luck, and Descendants
My Sivers ancestors came from Grantham, Lincolnshire, England on a boat to America in 1849. The boat crashed on rocks in the Irish sea, caught fire in the Atlantic Ocean, got pushed off course repeatedly by storms, and finally landed in New Orleans after two months. New Orleans was overcome with cholera, so they hopped a steam boat up the Mississippi River to St. Louis. Cholera killed nine passengers and the pilot of the boat. Days after they arrived in St. Louis, the city caught fire so they escaped in a covered wagon to Glenwood Iowa, finally arriving after three more months. In 1890, one of their sons ventured to the wild west of Colorado to pursue an opportunity.
Four of my great-grandparents came separately from Sweden to America around 1910. Two were poor farmers, two were middle-class urbanites, but all four were ambitious for prosperity abroad. They met in Colorado and Oregon, where my grandparents were born. After serving in World War Two, my grandparents moved to Portland to pursue an opportunity, with $25 to their name.
My parents met in high school in Portland in the 1960s. My dad is a particle physicist, but wanted to be more outgoing. My mom was homecoming queen, but wanted to be more intellectual. I was born in California in 1969, with a temperament somewhere in between.
Forty years later, a friend asked why I’ve been successful in life. I said I’ve just been ridiculously lucky.
He said, “No. Your success has come from choices, not luck.”
I said, “I disagree! What about being born in America? That wasn’t a choice! That’s luck.”
He said, “No! Your ancestors left a comfortable place to move to a scary unknown place because they felt it would lead to a better life for their descendants. To call your birth place luck is to disregard their foresight and sacrifice. Same with their choice of a spouse, how they raised their kids, and whether they saved for their kids’ future, or squandered it on themselves. None of that was luck.”
OK. Good point. It’s wrong to say our outcomes are all luck or no luck.
I still think most of my success was just luck. But it’s nice to acknowledge that the choices of your ancestors led to the circumstances of your life.
And the choices you make will affect the lives of your descendants for many generations to come.
But isn't your consciousness landing on Derek Sivers and getting to live Derek's life/body/situation luck?
You didn't choose to be born to your ancestors and in that body and family. You got lucky in the sense that you were born to anscestors who made the right choices.
But yeah, good point. I also agree most things in life can be attributed to luck.
But then I also think that maybe other options or paths also would have made me "lucky". So if there are many paths to luck, maybe it's not so much about luck. Although you could argue that being in a position to have many "lucky paths" is a lucky position to be in.
I hope you enjoyed reading the worst articulated comment you've ever received :)
You could argue that you were lucky that your ancestors made those choices. It is still luck that you were born after 1849 rather than before.
On the other hand, you could argue that you make the best of your situation. You play your cards right. Even if you were born elsewhere in America, you could still be successful. You could have also moved to America if you felt that it was where success was going to be.
It's a matter of perspective, but I agree that you can't say it was all luck or no luck. What you draw is luck. How you play your hands is your choice.
Luck also assumes that you had free will in the first place. I personally think that based on the state of the world at that moment and your past experiences, your choices are limited to one. Knowing this encourages a person to put themselves in situations that get outcomes they want. The word luck kind of becomes meaningless.
“Luck is when preparation meets opportunity” has been attributed to a number of people from Seneca to Louis Pasteur, I think. I’ve found it to be true in career, life and financial choices. Engaging (and humbling) story, Derek. Thnx for sharing it. JF
Ancestors and descendants have nothing to do with biology.
Remember the concepts of "disowning", "adopting", and "godparents".
All of these deliberately deny that ancestry is limited to blood relations.
You can choose your own ancestors.
A man who lived a thousand years ago could still be your ancestor.
If you express his philosophy he could be more of an ancestor to you, influencing your descendants, than your direct relatives.
Never looked at it like that. Good reminder to set up a solid foundation for your descendants.
Science fiction writer Larry Niven has a novel with a minor character in the far future who was ridiculously lucky. Born that way. Turned out that luck could be bred genetically.
How? By using a compulsory test where unlucky ones died. Such as, say, (I forget) picking a clay pot where the viper wouldn't bite. After long number of generations, the descendant was lucky all the time.
In the same novel a proud Klingon-type race was bred to be docile, without them even knowing it. Turns out the "Klingon" clans with the awful aggression gene kept declaring war on Earthlings and being wiped out. When a "Klingon" learned of this he howled with outrage.
Another fun fact—and rather sobering too. You know how some people in Hollywood go to psychoanalysts and blame their parents for making them grow up to be as silly as their parents?
Blogger Mark Manson notes the genetics of twin studies, where twins separated at birth behave much the same... so it's no wonder both twins, and you and I, behave a lot like our parents too.... And here I thought it was coincidence that mother and sister both pick at labels on their beer bottles.
Quite the plot twist. I thought this was on course to be a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" lesson. Or in the case of your ancestors, pull yourself up by your burning cholera laced bootstraps. Then, wham, "I'm lucky!".
It's weird how people don't think luck and hard work both play some part in life. Some people think everything is all luck, and others think it is all hard work. Probably the people who think it is all luck are hard workers who have never seen success, and the people who think it is all hard work have always been too busy to notice all the things they had nothing to do with that have helped them.
Curious - how did you find out this information, Derek? And was there anything that made you initially want to start learning more about your ancestors? (Besides the obvious, ha)
A Sivers in Iowa has been keeping the journals from the family tree. — Derek
This article was not sent as an email?
No — Derek
Well said.
I used to be a "no fate but what you make" (Terminator) kind of person. Lately, however, I've been reading a lot of Robert M. Sapolsky, which made me question the concept of free will.
Good comments as well - all by men, curious.
Note to Anja, above:
Sometimes in a public forum, be it in a building or on-line, males speak first because part of their culture is to rush. I remember visiting a professor in his office when I was part of his class where all of us were sports people. He said, "You guys don't do discussions, you do outbursts." He said that this was because we do quick decisions with no regrets, such a passing a hockey puck.
Lastly, I take a second to "think before I speak" so that my contribution can be concise.
Firstly, what I do, in a class or forum, before I speak, is I take a long second to get entered/grounded/check my intuition. If I don't truly know "why" I am speaking, then I stay silent. I am sure some people outburst without knowing "why" their sentences will contribute.
Although I have been known to say, "I like getting attention" if my comment is not "50 per cent or more" to help the group, not mostly to help me and my ego, then I stay silent.
Even in private, when I am speaking socially around a table, folks won't get me to boast about my adventures or travels unless they sincerely ask. Or buy me beer.
One of the concepts I play with is 'Affordances'. Affordance theory states that the world is perceived not only in terms of object shapes and spatial relationships but also in terms of object possibilities for action (affordances) — perception drives action.
So rather than luck perhaps some people are better at detecting affordances around them and acting upon them. Or perhaps selecting an affordance (such as emigration) which multiplies the affordances available to them. Perhaps seizing some of the possible affordances is an unconscious choice, breaking the conscious awareness of cause and effect... but no mystical stuff need be invoked. Similarly 'karma' need not be the result of judgement by some external factor, just the effect of prior affordances unfolding.
In response to Derek:
If you allow Jesus to PROVIDE everything for you, life will be more satisfying and much easier. How do you achieve that? You have to let go of expected outcomes. If you can do that, then you won't be concerned how something turns out, only that you are following God. We are in this world being tested for spiritual purity. What are our intentions? Do we want what other people have? Are we always asking for more, more, more? Or are we satisfied with what God gives to us? In America, people are told not to be satisfied until they are millionaires and billionaires and rich, rich, rich. But that's not living a deeper life. And the purpose of life is to PURIFY one's intentions and their soul. When you pray, make sure you pray to Jesus to help you be closer to Him, more like Him in every way possible. You will find that your experiences change, that your reactions to things around you change, that you are more satisfied, more content. Don't waste time on things that are irrelevant to God. Find out what He wants you to do, how He wants you to live and just do those things. Optimal health is just the beginning. We are here not to live "best lives" (American marketing crap) -- we are here to seek after God and to know Him and to follow Him out of this world into the next. What does that mean exactly? It means that squats in the pool and all the things you do for your health are going to improve your life in this world -- but your goal should be to purify your intentions and your soul. Purify to dwell in the house of the Lord.
I love the intellectual discourse available to readers on this site. But could we get a little deeper, please? There's more to life than material success. Some people have given away everything or lost everything only to find themselves deeper, spiritually richer and know themselves better.
Does it really matter if someone is fortunate? Yes, it does. Because luck does not exist. There are no coincidences in life and fortune has to do with something favorable as much as it has to do with material wealth. Look it up. I prefer the definition of fortune that has to do with providence -- "the protective care of God or of nature as a spiritual power."
When a person has more than they need, when they keep pursuing more and more and more...what does life become for them? They are more concerned about what they can do for themselves than they are interested in how the world really works.
Would you like to know how the world works? Then do nothing for a change and be influenced by the energy of Jesus Christ. Pray to Him for direction and follow His lead.
Tired of grabbing at things you think you need? Tired of proving how worthy you are? Tired of comparing yourself to Elon Musk? Tired of dwelling on your worldly accomplishments? There is something better. There is something better than being from an immigrant family and making millions of dollars.
That achievement is called accepting Jesus Christ. And you can have that for the asking. You can even run a scientific experiment if you want to and pray to Jesus for one month and document how your life changes.
This is the kind of talk that should be on a website dedicated to the author of how he thinks others should live to have good lives.
There is no such thing as a meaningful life without God at the helm, because when people leave this world they are going to have to justify every decision they made, every word they spoke, everything they did in life. If you don't believe this is true, then that is sad. I hope you change before you pass out of this world.
There is so much said about "leaving a legacy." The best legacy ancestors can leave for their inheritors is to know that God exists and that you are loved by God and that God is a personal God who has a special purpose for you. And you should spend your days figuring out what your purpose is.
Creativity and money and power. There's much more to life. Derek lives close to Asia. Asians understand this much more than English-speakers.
The best way to live? Honor God, honor one's ancestors and de-prioritize technology in your life. Get back to nature, get back to group meetings, get back to real living. If you've made your money on a computer, you're smart, right?
But there is more to life. And it's not luck...it's a conscious decision to find God and to follow God in life.
Thanks Derek - that was interesting. I often think about the people who came before me - in terms of my own family, but also as a global lineage of humans, going back to the earliest modern ancestor. I'm very interested in how our earliest human experiences have influenced how we experience & live life today.
I always have felt I'm so lucky living the life I have and having most everything I need to be successful and happy. Reading this made me think that yes, I am lucky, but also people did make decision that, in turn, impacted my life. Whether those decisions were made for their benefit, random, or for their progeny's benefit doesn't matter to me.
I don't think I have ever told my parents I love them, but I did in this short email I sent them immediately after reading this post. I have been in therapy and been trying to say and understand the term I love you more.
Immediately after I pushed send I teared up a bit. I've recognized I do that when my inner child is being touched, or a layer has been peeled back making me closer to my inner child. Thanks for these thoughts. I have been playing catch up on your blog from the beginning and in chronology I am at "barking".
"Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am master of my fate, and captain of my soul." -Unknown
My parents and their kids (my brothers and I) are immigrants here from Southeast Asian. Mom worker 16 hours (2 full-time jobs) for years in an assembly line. My dad also worked very hard. But no matter how hard they work, the most they were able to achieve is a nice house and giving the kids opportunities for a better life. I was able to earn my master’s degree ($45,000 student loan) and now a professional in academia. My wife and I are laying the groundwork for our son (born in America) to have more options in life. And definitely no student loans! Hahaha… These things take time, hehe… but I’m lucky to have super hard working parents. I definitely don’t believe that hard work alone makes people successful. I got lucky my parents came to America. I’m lucky my mom worked two jobs. Thanks for reading!
I think in this situation, you gotta have access to a different perspective in order to compare and determine if luck really played a role. I have that 2 perspective to Be able to compare. For my parents who worked a lot, no amount of overtime and 16-hour days would’ve given them the same kind of opportunities had they stayed in the Philippines. I have friends in the Philippines now who work harder than me. The money they make and the opportunities presented to them is not even close to the money I make the opportunities presented to me for working hard in America. I’m lucky in so many ways because I am in the United States of America, regardless of how many racist comments I get here, I’m still lucky by virtue of being here.
I’ve been dipping in your archives for a few months now, but I had to comment on this post as I thought you’d enjoy the coincidence: it is Saturday morning in the UK right now, and I am reading this from Grantham, Lincolnshire!
It’s a nice little reminder that we’re all connected.
☺ How cool! Thanks distant-cousin Millie! — Derek
I think randomness has a higher role compared to luck or choice in how things turn out in life. When it favors us we say it’s good luck or we chose the path that led to the good outcome. When it goes the opposite way, we say we had bad luck, or that we should have made different choices.
I was conceived because my dad got an extra day’s leave to spend with my mom when the warship he was working on collided with another ship in the harbor on its way out. Generally they are very careful with expensive warships and such an accident is rarest of rare events. Was I lucky that the ships collided? Was it the bad luck of the captain? Or was I born because my dad made a choice to return home for the night rather than waiting in the ship as it got repaired?
Another way to think about this maybe that it’s not luck or choice, but a combination of both. Either luck provides the right circumstances where a good choice leads to good outcomes; or making a series of good choices increases the surface area for lucky outcomes.
Maybe our ego means we genuinely forget how much of our success is due to luck. Just like the anti-government politician who genuinely forgot how his family once needed government food stamps.
Part of the reason martial artists bow is to remember. Just like the rich-enough-to-be-arrogant recording artist who remembers and sings, "Always be humble and kind."
I guess our entire culture downplays luck. Say, "luck" could be a good tavern topic.
As for my own remembering, I try not to forget being a new driver—but I do forget my lucky near-misses—and how hard it was to drive on the superhighway—many locals avoid it all year—and so I try to be considerate and set an earnest example when I see a car with a Student Driver sign.
Cool quotes