A computer that would require kids to be creative to use it

That definitely reminds me of my first experiences with the C64 and Apple IIe and BASIC. I remember retyping pages of code out of checked-out library books and magazines.

Those were the days - when you had a write the computer game before you could play it!

I agree, it can be difficult to get my kids off the computer at times, but if they could create their own games also from the way you suggest - I'm sure it would be more rewarding and educational.

Brilliant....

"My responses are limited. You must ask the right question." But also a computer which learns as the kids learn.

Hi Derek

youknow me as a musician primarily but i also teach art and run an arts website. I understand where yr coming from but I think that u underestimate justhow creative some kids are with computers. The problem in my opinion isnot the computer or the kid it's the interface/software and the fact that u have to pay a fortune to buy it and keep up with the latest 'thing' it's whyi love OpenSource. But give a kid a Mac with iLife installed and they would be creative crazy! Give a kid a graphic tablet and they produce stunning artwork. Schools are spending a fortune on hardware and MOST teachers have little or no idea how best to use it. Kids are being held back by teachers in ICT due to badly designed curriculums poor software and the poor level of training of teachers

But have you noticed that contemporary computers are typically designed to make adults passive? So no wonder the kids are. What is this parent doing with the computer herself that is more creative or educational? If she is, do some of those things with the kids. Either that, or get them involved in something that is entirely unplugged.

AJT

I'm sure yr not nerdy LOL but for me that's the whole point. In my lessons, some kids have grabbed the technoogy ages ago and are running with the ball. But they select whatTHEY want to learn and on their terms. This us a dangerous way to learn anything but I digress. For them computers are a breeze. But many students dabble. They're not interested in the HOW just the WHY. This is where Dereks jigsaw style thing would work well. Most of the software has been designed and thought of the issue is that it's all over the place, hard to find and too expensive. Schools all have their own ideasand answers. Kids can't learn ICT properly until they have more control and better reasons for using it.

I grew up with a TRS-80. My dad (an inventor) put it on a table plugged it it and turned it on. The blank screen was all you got.

If I wanted to play "pong", create graphics, or do anything, I would have to write that software myself.

He never bought any software for that computer but I was on it every spare minute for years.

I started by programing games for myself to play but eventually turned to creating music with the computer.

"Tricking adults into playing like children" In 1986 in the east village of New York on a warm spring night I accidentally wandered into a store which was not a store at all. It was a make-shift invention shop. There were a few pot-smoking, hippie styled american,and eastern european men with a bunch of bicycle and wheel chair parts lying around and a trampoline. They were trying to build a self balancing, two wheeled, standing position vehicle. This was 20 years before the "Segue" was to be.

But what they had already built and I tried was a trampoline that generated electricity when you jumped on it. "Why?" I asked. One guy explained "it's to trick adults into playing like children"

When I read pieces like this I always think of the promise shown in software like Etoys and Étoilé. The former is found in the OLPC and gives kids a fairly open environment to build in and whilst the later isn't near it's potential yet, for us big kids it could really improving computing.

Etoys — http://www.squeakland.org/

Étoilé — http://etoileos.com/

I too find that idea rather compelling. It's the type of thinking that got me interested in computers in the first place. Now a computer is just another tool in my toolbox. However, these days you can still get into building up a system from scratch - it's called Unix. ;-)

I had a TRS-80 as well. Learning those dos commands helped me look brilliant when windows arrived. Some children will gravitate to the strange toy and others will look for something they understand. Both options are good.

It depends on the kid, you have adults who are "just turning it(the computer) on and playing games, surfing, or chatting – but not really creating or learning."

Parents can enroll their children in computer graphic design or programming class. Or teach their children themselves if they have the time. No need to reinvent the wheel.

When I was younger I was using the computer for programming, computer graphics and research but most of my peers were not. Most kids, people in general, just want to play.

"This would get kids used to the idea of programming, and seeing real results. "

I think Myspace has done this inadvertently because kids and teenagers are learning a few things about coding so they can costumize their Myspace page.

Long Live the Radio Shack TRS-80, Commodore 64 (nice Rhyme) and the Amiga! Nothing like a little BASIC, Pascal or C+ to get a kid a geeked out on computers.

However, the tedium of programming (for some of us) went away when we simply could not make the software we wanted. I tried to make a diving game (olympic style) and eventually just went to the arcade and rocked Track and Field.

Great topic and right up my alley! Have been teaching Elementary school 27 years now and have watched the progression. I too grew up with a genius dad who designed the first computer games on a computer the size of a ballroom! Later he helped build and operate MIT's BATES LINAC. The first game he created, Ronald MsDonald gets out of the rocket on the moon and orders a "Big Mac and Fries!" : ^ ) My mom didn't permit us to eat under the golden arches until years later...wanted only organic and whole grain. Besides, we ate fresh eggs and drank fresh goat's milk at home but that's another story.

today a vegan none of that matters but honestly, it depends on the child. My son LOVED to pay Scrabble, Chess, Tennis, Basketball, Soccer, Football, Race Car. Never witnessed either of my two children playing weaponry because I NEVER permitted them in my home, nor music that cursed or denigrated anyone. If they chose to do it away from me so be it but they will always know what my principles are. Watching elderly bowling with WII having a Smart board, connected to a document reader and access to two laptop computer labs (20 each) and one class computer lab my Kindergarten students are saturated with technology! : ^ ) However, as a teacher I restrict the sites they may explore.

http://www.henryanker.com

Here's a great one for those bored kids at home right now. A father, a teacher, Henry Anker has been teaching teachers to use Smart Boards in their classroom for years. He is moving back to the classroom and getting a pay cut while bumping teachers who've taught three years due to RIF Reduction in Force. Well, can think of many places where a human is replaced and service is increased....airports, banks, movie theaters, trains, car washes! : ^ ) OK, if a child grows up enjoying puzzles and intellectually challenging games that develop reading skills, reasoning, logic and comprehension then they will progress to that. If you give them a trigger and show them what to shoot. Then they will progress to that.

We may limit the weapons but the action is the same: maim and destroy. However, give a kid a game like SIMS or MYST or some of the other creative graphics programs and show them how to use Print Shop and they'll be making cards and stationary for every occasion and never needed a "Mall Run" before a birthday party. Well, today my 23 year old is an associate attorney for an International Law Firm that deals with copyrights and trademarks among many many other things. My son, a Sophomore at Stanford convinced me in ALL honesty the importance of having an i-phone on campus.

He made Dean's List the last two semesters and the i-phone prevents him from missing so much that's going on on that big campus!

As a musician, texting is best especially in a recording session where one distant melody can throw off your entire train of creative thought and expression! In my class, I had 22 children learning Standard English Language. Since many other teachers have foreign accents, I find this one to be PERFECT for ALL children no matter their abilities http://www.starfall.com was designed by a couple whose eight year old daughter was not grasping reading. The site is free and free of advertising, there is no sign in just spelling Starfall or bookmark and keep in the first slot.

http://www.starfall.com

They cannot get lost. Just might need to monitor printing on your own but lots of activities to print as well and provided full courtesy by the creators of Blue Mountain Arts Greeting Cards! You know the ones that say it from you heart better than ANY other? Well, that's debatable but I have purchased their cards more than any other because they purchase such beautiful works. Have heard many poets complain about others stealing their quotes. Well, speaking of stealing, Derek still working on the theft of my music over the years...sent signatures and proof but Amazon still hasn't removed the sellers who are pirating. (about 11 or 12 different ones last count) CC'd my attorney my last message. Asking for accounting of all sales of my products from Amazon. Can you leave a link on this topic. Apologize but misplaced the number you gave me before. Believe you have my contact. : ^ )

Derek, your name comes up more often in my conversations than any as an Independent label. I am so happy that CD Baby is not excluded from the public school's radar. Myspace, Youtube and Facebook are not permitted. Having the dot com permits the children to access my music 24/7 365. They can always save the links for when they get home. Youtube can be HIGHLY educational and there is none other that can demonstrate the players of music, dancers, scientist, politicians, etc...better and more efficiently! My son had an X-Box which I refused to help pay for. The games were non-violent and it was easy to find birthday and holiday gifts for him that he was happy with. It is usually the adults that want all the action and purchase the edgier games for them. Grand Theft Auto (all in the series) is toxic, addictive and like giving heroine to a baby. There are many 'Terminator" type games displayed in the store making loud exploding sounds while commandos annihilate everything in sight like a combat warrior. Ninja's slicing people up and people kicking each other in the face and such. Does it make us violent? Well, this is for sure, it most definitely desensitizes us to violence but that's another subject and I've monopolized the mic too long. Yes, learned to use computer writing dos as well. Always preferred to go make oboe reeds and come back when it was more user friendly until I met one in my classroom in Cruz Bay, St. John and taught some of my first students to use the few programs we had on the huge fragile floppys! : ^ ) Well, upgrading to a smart phone, (have an intimate relationship with Sprint and have no reason to switch), have too many text messages from my children to keep up with my standard and want to fre from the desktops and laptops.

Texting while driving...well, that's like diving into a pool and not knowing if there is water.

It could be DEADLY not just for you but to others. Enough said!

The Incredible Machine is a wonderfully creative game that our whole family loves to play.

Hi Derek

you know me as a musician primarily but i also teach art and run an arts website (www.paulcarneyarts.com). I understand where yr coming from but I think that those parents underestimate just how creative some kids are with computers. The problem in my opinion is not the computer or the kid it’s the interface/software and the fact that u have to pay a fortune to buy it and keep up with the latest ‘thing’ it’s whyi love OpenSource. But give a kid a Mac with iLife installed and they would be creative crazy! Give a kid a graphic tablet and they produce stunning artwork. Schools are spending a fortune on hardware and MOST teachers have little or no idea how best to use it. Kids are being held back by teachers in ICT due to badly designed curriculums poor software and the poor level of training of teachers. Kids use computers all day for learning. Why would they want to do that at home as well?

The problem with this is, it wouldn't be "a computer" behaving this way, it would be a layer of software. So it would still be "far from the metal" and not "real".

Something like the Commodore 64, in the context of the time it came out, was amazingly powerful, and it got your creative juices flowing to imagine what you could do with that; but I can't imagine it could possibly have that effect if you're already in a world surrounded by what we have today.

So what you're proposing starts at the GUI level (attaching blocks to blocks), and then becomes more advanced when you drill down to a code level... I think you need to throw this idea up against something other than a blog aimed at musicians. Its heart and intent are absolutely 100% in the right place.

Whoa there Keith

That sounds a bit personal:

"I think you need to throw this idea up against something other than a blog aimed at musicians"

That's incredibly patronising. But i'm sure you didn't mean anything bad by it :-)

However, still there is a fundamental point being missed here. It isn't about designing a new smart piece of software or being clever with code.

Kids who CAN with computers don't need this technology. Why would you WANT to build your own web browser when u can surf anyway? Why make a chat function when there's millions already?

What is needed is to show kids and teachers how to use chat functions safely and educationally. Because I can tell you, most schools BLOCK and BAN chat programmes because they see them as a threat. We also ban Facebook and myspace and most web sites as well as mobile phones and evrything else that could be used brilliantly for learning. They are all seen as threats when they could be so much more.

What is more creative is watching kids build their own websites using sites like Wix, where all of the code is irrelevant to the content and purpose. "Who needs code?" One 9 year old kid said to me. "I don't need it"

There are many kids just using computers for pleasure sure. Why not? But those parents and people who think kids aren't using computers creatively and educationally just aren't looking hard enough. Kids are doing some great things in ICT its adults that are holding them back.

We are giving them the tool but not the software and purpose. We need to make whats out there more accessible and affordable and open doors to how to use what we have safely

Basically you are saying:

Instead of a computer, give your kid a sofware-less machine and gentoo.

I was the kind of kid that would love that.Today I'm engineer and use Linux. But more or less 90% of the kids DON'T LIKE IT.

I will put you an example, my uncle give my brother a Meccano(the authentic with motors and gears, not the actual ones) as a gift, he was engineer. My brother took it, broke and lost the pieces and lost interest.

When I tried to use it, I could not because my brother didn't like to make machines, I really love it.

This is way simpler than making blocks. Why people consider kids stupid?

Give them a representation of the reality, not the reality itself. Stupid kids. Why?

I could use a real computer when I was 10 years old.(load, save commands, basic programming..., it was easy)

If you want kids playing with blocks give him real legos or Meccanos or real puzzless.

Thanks for the inspiration, Derek!

When traveling I get into the routine of picking up the watercolors after breakfast, and letting my inner self wonder off into colors and patterns. While I watch it dry I wondering who I'll send it to. I always carry stamps, so I Flip the paper and write a few words and go mail it!

I do something similar with my guitar. Fire up a recorder and warm up my voice with some unpretentious chanting. Might even use the words written. Maybe there is a natural melody to it?

Ideally I will merge the two things together on my computer, make a little music video and send it off to someone I love. Another friend gets happy for receiving something truly personal;^)

The imagination is very powerful. Days might be very different, but the outcome will tell us much about our dreams and how we feel, before mirroring in someone else and greet the World.

Be it blue clay or mandala of the food? The thing is to spend some time every day on kids stuff!

S i g v e <3

great idea ... I credit those early home computers with helping me to learn to think for sure ... something like learning to record on a 4-track (which I also think everyone should do) ... but good luck selling this! I suspect people don't want to work even that hard for their entertainment anymore

That's a very good idea. Are you going to produce it? While children are young it's easier to get them interested in and used to creative sites/activities. It would be nice to draw teens away from certain sites for at least a period of time. I think computers waste monumental amounts of time that should be otherwise employed. But I know that's just a weary opinion.

Gen

I definitely won't produce it. I was just throwing it out there as a wee idea. :-) — Derek

I was just thinking a few hours ago how great flash drives are, wi fi, burning dvds.... but I still remember the excitement of pushing play on that tape recorder to load up a game onto my atari 800. Even the fun of infocom games like zork.... I sort of get the same feeling when I'm working on my site... but info is so easy to get now...it's not the hunt for code that it used to be. Reminds me a bit of Paul Mccartney talking about taking a bus across town to some dude's house because he knew the hallowed B7 chord. Now it's just google...done. Even learning lyrics.... sitting down with a tape deck and a notepad and writing them out.

To be honest....I like what we have now.....I think the days of working for things are over...on a basic level. The "I want it, and I don't want to wait for it" way of thinking is the ...well, way of thinking. There doesn't seem to be any exploration any more. I think that may be still there in sports....? Actual drawing with a pencil.......Time to find out if you are interested in, for example, computers..... a computer now is... a toaster...just make my toast...I don't want to know to it works.

I think I'm babbling....

That Alan Kay talk is interesting. Thanks.

What you're describing basically IS a Trash-80! Until Windows or macIntosh came along, you pretty much had to do everything yourself. However, what is this worth now?

Computers are capable of doing so much more than those early models did. The creativity is in the usage of the software--that's where creativity comes in.

For example: if you really want to understand web site building, get familiar with a web site building program. If you're more inclined to create, learn PhotoShop or CorelDraw or Illustrator.

Any device can be used passively. I think that fostering creativity is all about using the tools at hand to create something new.

Just my 2 cent's worth...

You can either get your kids an OLPC or one of these to work on almost any PC, boots from a USB as well, so you can try before fully making the jump:

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick

You should suggest your idés to Edubuntu. For a new flawour.

Having the luxury of time travel (or perhaps it was the reverse chronological order that makes a blog a blog), I'm wondering why you followed an "idea post" with a "no ideas without execution" post? Not being critical though, it made me grin.

I do like the creative computer idea very much. I would have loved such a machine in my childhood, except when it came to making my own game. Part of the fun of playing a game is exploring the creative workings of another's mind (game creator/programmer). Who wants to play a game that they created and therefore already know precisely how to beat?

Love the blog D! It's probably the only blog subscription that I actually stop to read when I notice the update message! Your creativity and intellect show in the success of CD Baby, but your wisdom and humility are carried on the banner of your blog. Not the literal banner, of course. Picture a military formation, all perfectly loyal to your blog and ready to die for the cause, with men out front carrying pennants and flags. One reads, "Wisdom." The other reads, "Humility." Two very important traits in life.

;-)

JMK

In my tech jobs, my youngest colleagues are often assumed to be more skilled at using tech than my older colleagues. I don’t think this is true. I have helped many a clueless 20 year old with basic troubleshooting. I notice many struggle with things I find obvious like filing systems. I wonder it is due to how seamless tech companies try to make their products now, more so even since this post was written.