Ah, to own nothing!

Very interesting thoughts, Derek. I had a time in my life when I gave everything away except my guitar, amp and a few cassettes. I was really liberating. It is true that everything you own keeps you busy.

I like the idea of using things when you need them instead of owning them. Elizabeth and I were discussing to buy a van for our gigs. But it wasn't realistic - renting one for the few times a year we play makes much more sense. But the downside - sometimes it is not easy to rent the things you need. Sometimes they are not available, or in the case of the van, the rental station is too far away.

From a spiritual point of view it becomes clear that we never really own anything, not even our bodies. There comes a time when we need to let go of everything.

One little story: We get our yearly publishing royalties on June 30th. We were really looking forward that day, thinking of things we would buy once we had the money. Today it's June 13th, and we haven't bought anything.

We are just happy. Nothing more is needed!

All the best;

Peter

I think that this is an important concept that most musicians should think about. Like a lot of guitar players, I went through a long period where I was continually experimenting with new pieces of gear. Besides the expense, I eventually grew to hate how much time I had to spend learning how to use a new piece of gear. Add to that the anxiety I would feel at a gig hoping that one of my pedals or rack mounted effects wouldn't malfunction and I eventually scaled back in a massive way. These days, I show up at a gig with my acoustic guitar, a simple direct box, and a cable. It may not work for everyone, but the lack of choices has had an extremely positive effect on my music.

Whenever a new piece of gear or software catches my eye, I ask myself a few questions:

1. Is this worth the money?

2. Is this worth the time?

3. Will this help me to make better music, or will it just be a distraction?

Most of the time, after answering these quesions, I decide against purchasing it.

Thanks for the post,

John

Cool video.

Consumption is an interesting thing. Don't agree with the video that it's the root cause of unhappiness, but it's certainly part of the equation.

Much like drinking, or watching TV, or eating crap food, we often do it to make ourselves feel better. And it works for a time, but only makes us end up feeling worse, so we continue to do it and the cycle goes on and on.

I remember being with you at SXSW or CMJ, or some other big music conference, several years ago when the whole dot com thing was hitting and every company there was giving out stuff. I was grabbing some t-shirts and you didn't take even one. You said something to me about getting into the habit of not consuming so much after being in NYC and having a small apartment with no room to put anything.

So every time I'm at a place giving away stuff, I always think about that!

Short term doesn't equal long term.

We go for the easy way, but because of it, screw ourselves with something much harder in the end.

Do something a bit harder right now, and the longterm result is much easier.

Eat junk now, feel good now, but get fat in the end and feel bad.

Eat healthy food now, it doesn't taste as good, but you'll feel better in the end.

In the end, in my opinion, this issue boils down to this...

People are lazy and go for the lowest hanging fruit. Too much trouble to bring a bag to the store when you can just grab a disposable one. Too much trouble to separate glass/paper from other trash. You get the idea.

iPhone? Why would I want one of them? So I can check on the amount of spam in my email account every ten minutes? So the boss can email me when I'm on holiday?

Ooo, no thanks.

I like the discussion going on here. The Story of Stuff video got me thinking about people, government, and happiness. A lot of countries around the world have governments that want the best life and most happiness for their people. In America, we opt for personal freedom, which with fewer and lower taxes gives us more money, but at the expense of our health and happiness.

Totally agree Derek, and I would submit that the less one owns, the more one can think, relax, connect and find contentment.

Besides, why buy an iPhone now when the Android phones are coming out at the end of this year :-)

Whenever I go to India to visit my cousins I am liberated! No internet, no long mobile phone talks, no gimmicks and pretty much no consumerism madness. People have fun the old fashioned way, visiting each other, playing on the streets and eating a small feast every now and then at a festival. It's one of the best feelings in the world.

I think it's pretty amusing how the good web 2.0 marketers are becoming more and more clever at promoting their products, yet web 2.0 consumers are becoming just as clever at living simpler lives and avoiding unnecessary purchases. It's kind of a paradox, don't you think?

Hey Derek. Brilliant post about "stuff." A big reason for the trouble we're all in is simply an insatiable desire to posses more stuff. May many millions more see and take your message to heart!

-jp

The real interesting thing is that two weeks ago I wrote a song with a new friend called "What Owns Me". All about how the pursuit of 'stuff' and jobs take us away from the things we really like to do.

So far everyone that has heard the demo, loves the song. Looking for a good home for it right now.

“Great men are they who see that the spiritual is stronger than any material force” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Looking forward to hearing about your ride through Iceland, Derek!

Having spent many days of my youth sitting on the posts which marked

Henry David Thoreau's cabin, I cannot think of a more enlightening topic!

“The question of bread for myself is a material question, but the question of bread for my neighbor is a spiritual question” - Nikolai Bordyaev

The iphone is an instrument, a tool which can benefit an artist if they so believe. Whether they do or they don't so be it. If it inspires, awesome.

If not, it wasn't meant to be. I see so many musicians spend every nickel to buy the latest piece of equipment thinking it will help them write that next hit song. Most of the best stuff as we know it today was written on substandard instruments and we still love it anyway. It's not what we play but how we play it, the heart speaks louder than all.

“Music is the purest form of art... therefore true poets, they who are seers, seek to express the universe in terms of music... The singer has everything within him. The notes come out from his very life. They are not materials gathered from outside.”

Rabindranath Tagore

WOW, in the past I've also stripped my belongings down to a single duffel bag (but I was homeless at the time). There is something to be said for the lifestyle but now that I am an owner of a growing business I couldn't imagine doing it at this point in my life.. damn, I sound like yuppie, ..gross.

...that said, I do not own an iPhone either nor do I care for the latest trend. Even in my chosen profession I use the tried and true. not the latest and greatest.

Not a Thing!



Is same as shunyata in buddhist terms! It has been misunderstood in the west because the term is hard to turn into english... so they came with the word ´ emptiness `...

it rather means `Everything minus... `things.`...Which are limited....Dig?

...And your bird can sing!!...

Madal used to explain, that many of our problems are caused, because we want to be satisfied with a limited portion of reality...

Hindus and Buddhists maintain that next to Man is infinite councsiousness,

for us to realize... Give up all the things that make you unhappy! & it is there. ( you can actually measure it in terms.

... peace, Light & bliss + happiness. )

What you take with you after you leave from this planet,

is your exp, your wisdom, your vision...those who disagree with me, please, step aside... Hey, ...To me F. Z. equals Bodhidharma.... Yes!

I´m an un-orthodox bastard.....OK. But,....It is so.

Vyasa

Amen. For all the moms/heads of household out there, there's a great site, Flylady.net, which I have been following for the past year in order to reduce clutter and streamline my life. I don't own/can't afford an iPhone or even an iPod. I am often tempted by the iPod, since I am a Mac user, but then I think about the fact that I don't like walking around with things in my ears. So I have managed to hold off buying an iPod for years now -- pretty impressive for a musician, no? But I do use iTunes on my laptop all the time. The greatest practice tool ever.

I love things. I cling to everything I possibly can. I love all of the functions they do. One day you need to cut you finger nails to play better guitar and the clipper is a life saver. The 9 volt battery works the mic and the tuner. The enormous reference books let you know just what you need to when it is essential. There is never a bad music book for when you want to play piano and need just that mood. If a CD has just one supreme song on it I want that CD into perpetuam. One day the soy sauce bottle is what makes the rice have zip. Globes, encyclopedias, drills, saws, printers, copiers, brain holders, back scratchers, backgammon, chess, water colors, oils, charcoal, pencils, drums, guitars, pianos, computers, TV, bicycles, weights, amps, bird feeders, dog dishes, clamps, paper cutters and a million more things... give em to me, I love em all. The clutter is maddening. I don't buy much anymore unless I REALLY need it but when I need that special thing like the needle and thread, I must have it! Viva things!

Not a hard luck story, just the truth...

I come from a real working class background (not the John Lennon type). My father was an ex-miner due to ill health and my family lived in a council house with not much money to spare. I grew up thinking it was "normal" for our windows to be broken by a crazy neighbour or for my Dad to be hit by my brother.

My wife, Berny, came from an even poorer background and we had to move away from our roots shortly after getting married due to there being no work in our area.

I eventually came to hate where we'd moved to but we stuck it out and got onto the property ladder.

To cut a long story short, we are now back where we came from with a lot more financial security and, much more importantly, plenty of time to spend together. We are far from extravagant (or rich!) but we enjoy owning the things that we thought we would never have - these things help make us happy and we really appreciate them.

It's very easy to say "I don't want to own things" when you know you're in the position to reverse that situation at any time.

If you enjoy having stuff, why A. feel guilty about it? or B. analyse the hell out of it?

I traveled around 5 countries in Central America for 9 months with my wife doing development work (and completing my latest album). I can completely relate to your story, Derek. To own very little is to be free - especially when traveling! But in North America we strive for "financial security" - usually at the expense of the dreams we keep locked up in the deep corners of our hearts.

To get so "worked-up" about the purchase of an iPhone in the first place says something I think...

I'm going through this right now with the iPod Touch.

They're really affordable, especially on Craigslist, and they're like a little computer, accessing WiFi, and lots of handy little apps… but it's just so unnecessary.

There's a Discover Card commercial that says, "We are a nation of consumers… and there's nothing wrong with that."

Seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKFZjg4eGMk

And some commentary here: http://tinyurl.com/discoverconsumer

That commercial really bakes my beans.

i lived off a bicycle (an xtracycle cargo bike) for four months and rode from north san juan, california to guadalajara, mexico with the pleasant revolution (pleasantrevolution.net)

it was the most amazing journey i have ever been on and stuff was obviously a major component since i was propelling all my stuff with my body. i should probably mention that it was a rock and roll musical bike tour with a pedal powered PA system including two 15 in speakers and that i was toting a cello in a flight case the whole way. also camping gear, clothes, other instruments, food, etc.

my bike probably had 150 - 200 pounds of stuff on it. and let me just say that i really liked having a thermos tea brewing cup. as well as kleen kanteen water bottles. i probably could have got by with less clothes though. all in all i know i have a problem with traveling with too much stuff. reading about flashpackers and reading blogs about travel that have been linked in with this article has made me want to slim down.

i'm currently planning a bike tour from canada to mexico along the west coast for this summer. hopefully i'll figure out how to travel ultralite by then!

bikes may not go as fast as motorbikes, but it sure is a good feeling making it to the top of a mountain under your own power and going down the other side! and with an almost zero carbon footprint to boot. i've never traveled by motor bike myself.

I concur whole-heartedly with this post...even though it took me a year to reply (maybe because I don't own an iPhone....heck I still have the cingular logo on my old phone....tee-hee...you know the saying...if it's not broken.......)!!!!!!!

Completely agree with your thoughts here. There is so much waste in the owning of something - especially a replacement unit like an i-phone for my phone that works just fine as is. I think so much of what drives us to purchase new is that we buy into the hype of the new features which rarely are used beyond the way were using the old stuff. Back to owning, I do have a lot of stuff, but I find myself every few years really scaling back and the stuff I do purchase seems to be less and less every year.

i once cherished a reasonably expensive twelve string acoustic. I had a friend who couldn't afford one, but enjoyed playing it a lot.
We packed after being at a church camp for a week, and for some reason, I left the guitar leaning on the back of our four wheel drive, probably I was meaning to get back to it, to pack it somewhere.
We were all in the car and I started to back out when I heard this terrible crunching sound. I knew straight away it was the guitar.
It was in a hard case, and the case was totally destroyed, but when i pulled it apart, the guitar was amazingly unscathed.
I knew it was a sign from above, so I immediatley located my friend and said, here, it's yours.
I lived without a guitar for about 12 months. Now I have about 10, but I also have 6 children, so they do get used.
I still want more guitars though.....
have i learnt any lessons?????

Although you've probably already seen by now, Paul Graham's essay Stuff: http://paulgraham.com/stuff.html deals with some of the same issues but in more detail. He's also working toward greater minimalism but makes an exception for books, which I like:

"I've now stopped accumulating stuff. Except books—but books are different. Books are more like a fluid than individual objects. It's not especially inconvenient to own several thousand books, whereas if you owned several thousand random possessions you'd be a local celebrity. But except for books, I now actively avoid stuff. If I want to spend money on some kind of treat, I'll take services over goods any day."

The "stuff" issue reminds me of the occasional questions that novice writers will ask about what kind of computer, word processor, or operating system they should use; my answer tends to be, "it doesn't matter." See here: http://jseliger.com/2009/11/11/the-computer-operating-system-or-word-processor-a-writer for more on that topic.

You should really got to Iceland. But wait 'til it's summer, the luminous nights are wonderful !

I went there for a week last summer and already thinking about going back..
Yeah. I love Iceland. See sive.rs/iceland.">sive.rs/iceland">sive.rs/iceland. — Derek

Another great post, Derek! "I've never seen a u-haul behind a hearse. The only thing you take with you when you're gone is what you leave behind."
- Miles Patrick Yohnke

The iPhone is a gadget. Unless you're a complete tech nerd like myself you probably don't legitimately want something like that. Most people get bitten by the jealousy bug. Then again... I might just hate my phone that much. The buttons have stopped working -.-

The problem is people buy things out of jealousy as opposed to actual interest or want. When you buy a 52" because your neighbor has one, its not very fulfilling unless you can show it off to someone. Same with cars. Same with everything. Unless you actually want it because it would give you joy and entertainment, you don't need it. Don't buy it. :)

Well all we really do is hire stuff for the duration we're here isn't it? I am confident that most people I know should be able to be happy with less most have more than we need but we are conditioned to want. We buy the same stuff all the time in different formats for marginal or sometime debatable improvements. Everything so far imagined has been made a reality but the value / worth is variable / questionable.

The pyramids were all found to be full of stuff weren't they? I think that was how we discovered the benefits of honey.......

I partly agree with you about owning.
But there are some things it is better to own then to rent.
Like a house and clothes haha.
But a car? well it depends on your own needs and usage I think.
Ever since 2001 I am not allowed to drive anymore I just go by bike, by public transportation or, by cab, or let someone do the driving for me. Agreed it is not always the easiest way to get around but you'll get there.
Tom

I definitely have the mentality of living a simple life and not owning anything that I dont use now/near term..
ie Business assets are ok, but other than that, i went through a whole phase of just selling everything i didnt use alot.
most clothes, books, car, tv etc.
Now I have very few possessions and find it a very liberating lifestyle-
Mainly because for some reason,
having less seems to make me use my mind more and also be way more creative..
Musically, getting rid of my studio and all the keyboards and instruments was so liberating.
I love just having a laptop and being able to move to different spaces and work with different people around the world.
Thanks for this thread - very
comforting and inspiring!
BTW i do have an Iphone and an Ipad :p

Your writing and life philosophy reminds me so much of my husband Sean Bonner.

- We live in LA but works in Singapore & Tokyo
- He tries to be a minimalist
- I used to work at Topspin Media (we're both friends with the CEO Ian Rogers)
- We travel around a lot
- He is one of the founders of Coffee Common that launch at this year's TED.

Probably share a bunch of friends/ acquaintances

He's @seanbonner on twitter.

Hey Derek :)

A friend directed me to your site this morning, and I'm glad he did!

I don't normally comment on posts, but I was in the to iphone or not to iphone..

I thought I'd throw in two cents in the 'pro' category..

I'm also quite minimal, and the iphone has helped.

I rarely use my laptop now, my point and click camera died and I won't be replacing it (HD video & 6mp on the iMachine), I gave my ipod touch away (OCD mnmlsm habit), and I use the iMachine for checking the wind, trading stock options and social media stuff.

To be honest, I get a bit inconvenienced when someone calls me on it, and I have to use it as a phone!

I've watched & shared the story of stuff, that vid makes me feel ill about owning most things mass produced.

:/

I'm getting more like this every day. I love to sell stuff on Ebay just for the rush of getting rid of it. It feels like a load is coming off.

Great post. I found you through appsumo.

I've been thinking how wonderful that new iPhone will be when it comes out at the end of this year.

You know what? My current iPhone works just fine.

TY!
~Kate

Apple sell very well. They forced upon you that you feel you really need. I have the iPhone 3G, but I will sell.

It is important to stop and think. Discard all feelings. And ask: do you really need it? Usually the answer, not :).

I actually find that an iPhone and iPad helps me become more of a minimalist. All my documents get scanned and kept on my computer and iPad. The iPhone (I still have the first 3G model. It still works. No need to replace) is my mega Swiss army knife that does much, but disappears when you don't need it. Same with the Kindle (e-ink is great). I used to want to buy books and hem and haw weather I really want another book to bog me down with more clutter, even though the book would be really cool. Now they all just disappear into my kindle. So, I'd say get stuff that helps you from having more stuff.

I entered a competition to win a high end FireWire audio interface recently. I didn't win, but I got an email from the sales manager of the company asking if I wanted to discuss my requirements with him. I immediately thought 'Yeah, yeah, yadda, yadda, yadda...' but then stopped. And looked at this perfectly polite and friendly email again. And replied - that I thought his company's stuff was really cool and I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I had the money, but the budget was not going to stretch currently; nevertheless, this is a link to the CD Baby page for an album I mixed and these are the projects I'm currently juggling.

And I got a really nice email back saying 'Interesting stuff, Tony - financial situation appreciated, but we'd be happy to lend you one of our units for a project!'

And yes, friends can be like that too - you can actually borrow things, with the idea of returning the favour at some point...

Good advice Derek, I'm off to spend a year travelling around Australia, Fiji, New Zealand and Hawaii next year so i've really had to learn this one - I went out suitcase shopping with my sister a few weeks back and *insisted* on one of the smallest suitcases (one of those ones that are small enough to be hand luggage) and I've packed everything I need.

The Tim Ferriss link was useful too.

Marcus

Hi Derek
I SO agree! Me and my wife try to own as little as possible - saves money (and waste) and lets us work less - and guess what we now can live without insurance on our apartment, because theres not much to steal anyway :)

By the way thanks for the e-mail you sent back - thumbs up!

Morten from Denmark // Aarhus :)

Minimalism literally allows me to enter my own mind, I recently
moved into an old house on the tiny island of Malta and it was
cluttered with stuff everywhere. I've moved to owning absolutely
the essentials only (even though I can afford more) and having all this stuff around me distracted me so badly I was unable to focus or work. I left after one month and moved into a brand new apartment with almost no furniture, ahh bliss.

I must say though, its always technology which I find the hardest to let go of since I make a living working online. I'm down to a single thinkpad and android phone, and I've got to rid myself of one of them soon!

Just read your article and thought to myself, hmmm I just made a board on pinterest with the things I can't leave without and of course mu iPhone was on it....
Funny how you can get attached to material things when you are absolutely right saying that just having something when you need it instead of owning it would be more fun.

You just take the words right out of my own mind!!! So glad I internet met you!!

I don't know if I'll ever strip down everything to a bag or even a couple of bags. I do like having a place to myself and some furniture. I will say I live a bit Spartan in comparison to my family. I find myself wanting less and less, and the things I do want to provide multiple functions of things I need. I honestly love going to Asia and being able to ride the trains or buses everywhere I go. It's pretty damn fun and sometimes wonder about living there to live on nothing but a suitcase that I brought over. I'm planning to get married (to a filipina woman) so I'm not sure if she'd be as thrilled about a truly minimalist lifestyle but she also isn't materialistic so we can try.

Good tools can come in handy and enhance productivity.

But some of the best movies were filmed on simple film, some of the best books were written on an old-fashioned typewriter, and some of the most beautiful buildings were designed on paper.

Creation comes from inside you.

My long time desire has been to be wealthy/rich enough to own nothing.

Rent/lease your way through life and shed the burden of ownership.

I liken ownership to having bungee cord tied to yourself and an immovable object. Each new possession is another cord. Holding you back from truly being free.
Yet we eagerly search for another cord to attach and are happiest in the pursuit of same..........strange.

But of course such a reality I describe is predicated on a sustainable flow of purchasing power in whatever form required

Great thoughts and also inspiring as usual

Think I might get rid of my car and just rent one if I need it

Derek:
Having worked in the restaurant/ hospitality industry for more than 45 years, though unrelated to the "high tech" world that seemingly abounds here, other than as possible volume sales of POS systems, I nonetheless have been inspired by you and your writings, and this particular tag line crosses all lines of personal approach to just "life" for life's sake.
I've owned only one restaurant in all of my decades. within the industry. This took considerable effort to avoid "ownership", another story that.
On the verge of a successful breakout with our Cowboy Capital Texas BBQ restaurant, my wife/best friend/partner of 37 years, passed away suddenly and without warning. I Closed the restaurant one night, came home and found her passed. Within a few short months, I chucked everything I owned and sojourned, literally with my two bags, into the South African bush to a small independent Christian mission. "scary"? you betcha! After 2 months I became deathly ill and was transported stateside for treatment and recuperation.
While recuperating, the mission caught fire, burning to the ground killing everyone in the mission. My wife's death and the fire were 1 year 9 days apart
I found myself back in the states with "nothing" left, having "chucked it all as well as pouring the "rest" of our savings into the mission, after losing the start up capital we had invested from the new restaurant venture, by walking away. We were leasing, so no property ownership hindrance.
NOW! I'm coming to Singapore, in January.."scary" you betcha! but, I'm coming anyway! literally,with my two bags.
I'll be looking for a pot to "P" in and then seek a high window to throw it out of.
I have a new bride waiting there, A wonderful S'porean Lady, we're older not dead, and have been discussing this for about 3 years, since my ill fated trip to and return from South Africa. It has seemed cost prohibitive, still nip and tuck, (I'm presently taking stock of the thickness of the skin of my teeth) with this last election cycle, now the almighty buck seems far less necessary for happiness as well as failing almost hourly, in it's attractiveness or value.
I've never truly been in search of it anyway. I'd much rather attempt to make everyone around me richer for the experience, as they do for me by their existence and interaction.
The economy here in the states does not allow for experience and accumulated knowledge to be a pertinent commodity in a job market flooded profusely with an over abundance of youthful candidates, who lack any actual practical application in the assorted fields that their institutes of higher learning have ground them out for, piecemeal.
But their "higher" education does allow for them to work for less and less.
I bequeath it to them that remain, and are ravenous enough to feed on each other.
Singapore seems to offer a "simple" uncluttered lifestyle, if you just slip into the comfortable clothes it has custom tailored for itself. With the always present, always moving, express escalator to the top of the Singaporean business world, readily at hand, if you're rested enough or bored enough with your respite, to once again enjoin the feast of the wolves.

Just an old philosopher, that retains intact, that undaunted spirit of adventure.
<

Very nice post and very true.

I live the same way, the weight of worrying and caring for things just steal time away from life... The freedom of being home-free/possession-free is highly underestimated!

I love the risk of not knowing, not planning, leaving every option open...I can feel the pulse of life more accurately and I have the luxury of saying 'hell yeah!' to whatever opportunity that presents itself.

One can wonder why not more people value freedom over possession?

Best,
Tor.

Definitely overwhelming post. It affects myriad "raging" issues in our friendship. It is unachievable to be indifferent to these problems.

did you ever do this? http://www.bikingviking.is/?id=64

let me know if you fancy it anytime- you sound an interesting guy and we are coming at capitalism in a similar way ( except I have a 16 year old Ducati that I do actually OWN!). I use Marxism to deliver value to the wider community.

anyway, keep up the good work fella,

Simon
Ah, unfortuntely not. My motorcycle license had expired without me realizing it. Some day.... — Derek

Love it brother! Your ideas and thoughts... I own almost nothing now. I've sold everything, and have set up a steady, kind of "off the grid" cash flow program for myself. I have and maintain a constant $25,000 in cash. In other words, if I spend $10,000 (I'm a New Yorker) in a month, with all my expenses, within that same month I also earn $10,000 as well this replenishing my nest egg. Whereas I used to strive and set goals to be or maintain huge incomes or windfalls in my life.... Now I have peace of mind and calm. I live full time in an upscale hotel for a monthly rate which is 47% below their daily rack rate. I rent a new average car with full extra insurance for under $1500 a month. ALL my wealthy and not so wealthy friends chastise and tease me because instead of driving a Camery I could with ease be driving a trendy Porsche, or at least a Benz or a BMW. But I don't have to fill out or share my information or my financials with anyone... And I have zero maintenance costs or worries. I was once a rich guy with major assets. I lost it all via greed and recklessness... However, I live wealthier and happier and healthier today than I ever have before at this amazing time in my life... The benefits of living small n a large way, simplifies and cleanses the soul in ways I never expected... Once again thanks for your blog.

PS. I bought a new droid based smart phone, last years model (was originally $190) at Target this year for $20. And signed up with VIRGIN (Sprint Network) for $55 a month for unlimited calls, text and 4G data, internet service. Smart, economical, satisfying... Peace out!

I am a real believer in the Law of Dimishing Returns. At a certain point, each additional unit of stuff sees less return than the previous unit of stuff. On the other end of the pendulum, Each unit of stuff subtracted sees less return than the previous unit of stuff subtracted.

I am a poor boi, working for real skills, real friends, and real wealth. Planning to live fulltime in a van, travelling the US and CANADA all four seasons. It IS possible on a under $10,000 a year income with a few unconventional strategies and sweat equity.

I am working on ridding myself of 12 years of accumulation beginning at age 10. Working to downsize while I am 22, and stay that way for the rest of my life. Throwing things in the trash/recycle as a last resort. I dont plan on going to the extreme of choosing my iPod (Fourth gen) vs laptop.

As for work, an hour working at minimum wage is the same amount of time as a hour begging for change.

A van set up as a microapartment is an amazing balance between space, comfort, cost and versatility for one or two people. I don't desire to live in anything smaller than that, because one will see dimished returns. What I mean are the associated problems/workarounds of not having that one thing when needed.

"Wouldn't it be more fun to never have to OWN anything, but to just have it when you need it?" There is a point of dimishing returns with this too, like Wouldn't it be more fun to just rent a hairbrush when I need it?

This is where I think I can expand this idea a little: And if your money is invested instead of spent on unnecessary things, it really adds up to more freedom in the future.

Something unnecessary can still bring a lot of joy. Is a camera really necessary? Not for survival, no. But for photography, absolutely! But I mean, is art really necessary!? What about coffee? No one carries a french press when they travel, but it's really the simplest/best isn't it?

What would one do with the returns on one's investment in the future? Perhaps take up photography? Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with the sentiment. I believe thoughtful minimalism is evolved! But why give up today's freedom for the promise of tomorrow's.

The effectiveness of your work tools is a great investment also. Don't you want a new laptop? 7 years is a long time. Maybe it's irresponsible to get a new one every season, and always have 4 or 5 machines lying around - but go ahead, donate your ancient beast and hook your self up! Talk about having a damn good reason to carry something!

Thanks!

A good thought experiment, Derek. Meanwhile, I might comfort some readers by agreeing with Paul Graham on books from comment #30:

For a while I took all my replaceable books to a Used Bookstore to store for me, where I could buy a book again when I needed it. But now they don't take most of my books.

I have nothing against shiny plastic library books, that I can have when I need them... but mine are scuffed velveteen, from an age when the sky was bluer and grass was greener. Such books will be the last "stuff" I part with.

What are the other items than computer and phone? Are personal toiletries included?

For John Domingo, at #82, who asked about personal toiletries:

For not owning toothpaste, you could "double up," as I have sometimes done, by using your baking soda. (It says so on the box)
For not owning soap, I grew up poor, and so as a school boy, and even as an adult college student, when I used the school showers there was always soap left behind by someone else.

Even when poor, for a touch of luxury, I used a hairbrush instead of a cheap cool comb like everybody else did. That felt worth it.

Your question, John, surprises me.
Perhaps you could experiment, and then report back to the rest of us.

Well Derek, today Jan 31-Feb 1, you have shuffled off to Oxford with your three suitcases. Nice. But no room for books, although I guess you could buy them again, and download digital ones.

The other day I was thinking that I liked books partly because they are like paintings and sculptures: They have an emotional vibration.
Which leads me to a Big Thought—the ideal I see on the web so much, of Zen and minimalism, is an ideal that not only ignores books, but also ignores art.

I once spent three years making payments on an art piece before I brought it home. (I would visit the gallery every month to make my payment, talk and see art) To me art is vital.

Note to other readers of comments:
The reason everybody keeps talking about iPhones is the link "investing" in Derek's post.