Piracy is not the problem

I think that you may have received the same reaction in your other response as well Derek. Now, if you had made a statement that aligned with her own position she may have acted differently. She was there for blood from the get go and it seems you became the target of her anger over piracy.

As you said piracy does indeed exist, but I don't believe it will ever be stopped. In a broader sense piracy isn't just limited to people stealing music off the internet in my opinion. There are many degrees to piracy, as in, music labels, producers, agents, etc., stealing rights, royalties and the like stealing from their own artists. You don't hear to much about them, so I guess those could be the pigs in this business. That 16 year old that the RIAA busted for not paying for the music off the internet would be the shark.

In either case I don't sit and fret over it. I'm to busy pondering over my next song, how to better market myself, or that really cool piece of equipment that came out. It's better to be constructive than destructive.

Steve

In my current indie status I'd be flattered that someone thinks my music is worth stealing!

"Gee, Thanks, Mr. Criminal! Can I put you on my mailing list? "

Dear Derek;

I just have started to give 2 songs away for people who sign up for my newsletter. I do get new fans this way. Once the music is out, I have no control about what is happening with them. But that has always been the same with my physical CDs. Everybody can duplicate it and share it. Sharing is a fact.

You are absolutely right, obscurity is the enemy. If 1.000.000 people duplicated one of my tracks and shared it, it would definately give me a huge amount of on - and offline sales as well. I'd be happy. Absolutely.

Obscurity is the absence of being noticed. Of being appreciated.

Obscurity will make an Artist bitter in the long run.

I have spent my hole life to become what I am, both in music and as a person, and I love to share it. I have so much to give.

So come on take it, just another little piece of my heart now, baby.....

You know you've got it - and it makes me feel good!

That woman sounds kind of like a freak. She needs to take chill pill. I'm a songwriter, but I have no problem with piracy at this stage of the game I'm in... obscurity. Someone needs to dust out their maxwell cassettes and make that woman a good mixed tape. ; )

yeah... I love you, man (in a very respectful and dignified way ;)

reminds me of a quote...

"there is no mystery, only an inability to see what's obvious" (paraphrased, but that's the gist)...

I wonder if the independent artists who are so concerned about piracy are in reality upset that they're not selling as many records as they like, and rationalize that in believing that piracy is to blame. That would account for someone being so physically upset.

Anyway, I think your comments are entirely true Derek. Well the pig part is hard to believe, but I'll take your word for it.

That's what happens when a lobby-in-the-dark with almost unlimited funds (major labels+RIAA+whatnot) keeps hammering the "piracy" message through every possible outlet.

Your reply in the conference was spot-on, Derek. Don't be ashamed of it :-)

It is always easy to blame 'the other' factors. Staying positive really does pays off in life though and more PRODUCTIVE. I just got that 'exciting' idea last night. I thought of your blog post that was published a while back. I hope this excitement does not disappear while I am doing my viability process for this exciting idea... I get excited with my ideas often but find many faults with my ideas while I am doing this viability test while I am researching the market or the product closely...

I agree with Dean. I wish my music was blowing up all over the world because it was in such high demand! I always make all the songs we release available for full streaming listen, and provide free full MP3s for things like signing up for our mailing list or other fan bonuses.

If people took more notice, perhaps we would see better attendance at shows? Or maybe someone passes a free MP3 to a friend who then likes our music enough to buy the album?

I don't think piracy is a real concern at all until your bank account reaches 6 figures. More likely it's not a factor until 7 or more.

Piracy and obscurity means your music not valued.

Competence in your craft and awareness by an audience means your music is valued (by yourself and others).

Making your music valued is what leads to rewards, whether that be monetary or just doing what you love more often and better.

Go toward the light Carol Anne...

I used to get pretty angry at piracy myself (and sometimes I still do). I used to take it very personally. And that might be where this woman was coming from.

For me it was the arrogance of a few (this was back when I first started recording and selling my music) who actually took some delight in informing me that they didn’t need to pay for my music because they could get it for free on napster (once again, this was back in the day).

That level of arrogance made me very angry, it made me want to support the RIAA in their efforts to sue individual users.

In time though the sheer volume of arrogance and conceit from the RIAA and the rest of the industry began to greatly outweigh the arrogance of a few twits who thought they where being cool.

Had the music industry learned to monetize the new technology I don’t think piracy would be much of an issue right now

Had the music industry not abandoned the beautiful packaging of vinyl when they shifted over to the CD, I don’t think piracy would be much of an issue right now.

Had the record labels supported artists who created great albums (as opposed to artists whose albums only had one good song on it) that Piracy would be much of an issue right now.

Would have, could have, should have……….

I personally still don’t like piracy, and I continue to do my best to educate respect for the songwriters whose music they enjoy.

But I DO now think that obscurity is a bigger enemy.

I DO now think that the RIAA efforts to battle piracy are counterproductive.

I DO believe that (in spite of piracy) you can convince people that your music is worth paying for.

I think it all comes down to shifting attitudes.

RE: Melchyor

You know Melchor, I agree with you....to a certain point.

Like you, Self interest does not drive my dislike for piracy either.

My dislike is driven by the simple immorality of it.

I also find it shocking and discouraging that there are so many people who have no respect for the rights (copyrights) of others.

People who think that all music should be free for them.

People that really don't care if their actions affect the ability of others to make a living.

BUT......I don't think that Derek is trying to "belittle the issue”.

I think he is trying to put it into a better and more realistic perspective for the indie artist.

I don't think He's saying that it's right. I think he is saying that there are more important matters to be concerned with.

And I think that in the end, that Derek is right.

The RIAA is being counter productive

You and I cannot change what the rest of the world will do on their computers.

We can only work to educate our own fan base and our own circle of friends and associates.

But more than that, we have to work on our music.

Charles and TJR, I agree with both of you.

The RIAA isn't really helping us. Well I at least have received any money from the RIAA's pursuits.

And I just don't think that piracy is nearly as extreme as some of us make it out to be. Yes it sucks. And no I don't think music should be free. But I think it's more important for us to make better music, while trying to reach fans in new ways.

I believe they are two almost separate populations; the people who will support the music by buying (the downloads at iTunes, etc...) and the people who thrive on file sharing of 'free stuff'. So therefore the one population does not impact the other very much. They're like two separate worlds.

I also believe that the music buying population loves the ocassional 'give-aways' which is why I always welcome new email-list signups with an email that there are 12 free legal music downloads (of songs that I don't SELL online) at http://www.download.com/stevencravis I love CNET's site structure because to the right of these downloads are links to purchase my music that I have for sale. So far 348,000 total listens at download.com and over $27,000 in digital download sales through CDbaby. Objectively I think this is not bad for a 'unknown' 'instrumental' artist.

The point that Derek makes about why worry is the most important I think. We can't do anything about things beyond our control so we might as well keep on focusing energy forward on the next thing we can create.

-Steven

http://www.stevencravis.com

so true Derek - sorry to hear your audience didn't get it... but they'll thank you later.

I'll admit it...I've downloaded music from "pirate" sites in the past. I've also spent much, much more than my fair share on audio CDs and iTunes music as well, and here's the fascinating thing about this:

Almost every dollar I have spent on audio CDs or on iTunes music has been for artists that I never would have heard on traditional channels such as radio or television, but discovered from friends uploading their music for me to try. If I like what I hear, I support those artists by buying their records. Viral distribution is the most potent force for artists trying to break free of the rip-off big companies who control those outlets through legalized payola (excuse me, it's called "promotional funding" these days), and sweetheart deals. And it is the artists making these end runs around the establishment that are being fought against tooth and nail under the excuse of combatting "piracy."

That's why the consortium of record companies squashed the original mp3.com -- because they were starting to get many "name" artists to distribute through them.

-=-Ron-=-

On a day-to-day basis, it surprises me that many musicians expect that their fans will behave different than they themselves do.

I certainly don't go out and buy an album unless the artist gives me some free MP3s to get addicted to first. And yet, it surprises me how many musicians think that someone will buy their CD after hearing a 30 second sample of a few songs, and fail to take advantage of putting their music on MySpace, last.fm, and so forth.

And even though I buy *lots* of music, I certainly didn't buy most of the music on my iPod. But when artists make it even harder to find their CD legally than through P2P software, I just don't buy the album. And yet, I've seen so many publishers get furious about piracy while failing to make their music available for sale where people *actually* look, and at a price that's worth paying.

Personally, one the best sales tool I ever got (even better than front-page newspaper coverage in the Seattle Times) was a 24-year-old guy in Vietnam who got our music off a P2P service, and made unlicensed music videos on YouTube of our songs. Those 100,000 views have sold a good wad of CDs, and we quickly become friends!

It's easy to get angry for "piracy" - we want some abstract enemy to blame for not meeting our own sales goals. But I didn't need to have done MBA studies (even though I do! ;-) to say that Derek is very wise for instead digging into understanding why our music actually ISN'T selling and FIXING IT, rather than scapegoating an unchangeable reality of our world.

Eli Goldberg

Owner, Prometheus Music

P.S. When I found out there were lots of folks in Israel listening to our music (but we'd only received a single sale there), I admit I was initially felt a bit cheated, too.

But then I contacted the mailing lists all of our Israeli customers are on, and offered to bring wholesale CDs for them - all delivered in person (as well as CDs from a friend's label in our genre that I thought they'd want). We sold about $300 in a single day - and I made a whole bunch of new friends in Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem!

Piracy is not the enemy of the music publisher; the enemy is a failure to be creative in genuinely caring about and serving your customers, the way they want to be served.

Great article Derek, totally agree with you.

So these folks have never used a VCR or taped something off the radio in their lives??!! Who is the pirate now then?

Like most sport, the music industry is all about cash. Cash awalys brings out the worst in people. When people need to cash to keep their career alive, it's an emotive subject.

Also, music seems to be all about trying to find excuses why we're not as successful as we think we should be!!!

I don't condone breaking the law but file sharing is great way for us to distribute and promote our tunes. If somebody is making cash out of our tunes without our permission, or us getting a cut, that's maybe a different story. I am concerned that the big boys might get their way and close a lot of these avenues for folk like me, who want their material distributed in this way.

This is the age we live in. If we wanna be involved, it's our decision. We all know the score.

peer to peer file sharing must mostly be art that is controlled by corporations? although sites like http://www.jamendo.com have around 8000 albums that can be legally shared through torrents using the creative commons license, this is probably only a drop in an ocean full of sharks.

I thank you for your wise thouhgts i have always thought that if my songs were worth someone going to all the trouble of burning a disc then the song must be good its a compliment you have a fan give it away and if its good then people will pass it onto others

Its a bit like this OH i have to pay all this tax bring it on i wish i was paying thousands of $ tax each year

I see people who are indoctrinated into defending third hand information all too much in the world. As someone who makes music I know we are not loosing by people sharing music. Social habits aside I do think people should be encouraged to put there money were there mouth is and purchase things they like, as choosing products is a completely subjective thing the ball is in the beholders court.

I love that the entertainment world is changing, all and everything we make by our hands. All the entertainment, music, merch, & revenue streams can be what ever you might imagine. Spending a little time on making the money roll in is always good.

Most of the people mad about it are so worried because they know how easy it was for them to pirate some one else. But I can understand any ones fear but there is truly nothing that can be done about it.

Me personally as long as the music is getting out there a couple of dollars lost in the matter is part of the business.

Now if I saw a both at the flea market with about 20 bootleg copies of my CD that might be cause for a smash and grab :)

But other then that it goes on with or without us.

Just my thought,

Markess of DA WONDA TWINZ

To all the Blackbeards and Jean Lafittes out there - my music is available for download and further pillaging like a small seacoast town (and of course sharing with all your pirate mateys) at www.dannrusso.com :-)

I fairly often have conversations with young artists in various media (music, theater, graphics...) who regularly "share" or "buy really cheap copies" of mainstream music and movies but separate those transactions from the perceived piracy of their own work because "i'm just a poor starving "indie" artist and those big guys make so much money they won't even miss it".

I think, first of all, we all need to focus on making our product the best it can be, and secondly, apply the rules we tout across the board.

As my Gramma said "if you're working you don't have time for complaining", and as I always say, "A little theft is like a little pregnant, the condition overrides the degree.

I just do my thing, a long time ago a hand written book of poems was stolden from me. I was always singing my stuff and a year later one of my songs came on the radio. Boy did thay screw it up!

Pirates Pirates Every where

Pirates Pirates I Don't Care

You steel from me

Thay Steel from You

So if You Cry

I will not be Blue

Like I said I just do my thing.

Matthew G. Wojcik

I couldn't agree with you more Derek...piracy is about making money, feel good about someone wanting to make money from your music. Chances are they think it's good and it's one cheap form of marketing. You don't pay for the reproduction, your music is being circulated and hopefully played..over and over and over to the point of getting to the next stage.

Recognize!!!!

Much respect to you Derek, but on this one I'm not quite with you. You're probably right in that spending lots and time and energy on fighting the inevitable is not the most constructive thing to do.

But to implicitly come out and almost "defend" the fact that music has, for all practical purposes, become a free commodity, hmmm.. this I don't like.

It's a double edged sword. I've had people come up to me, in person, telling me how much they love my CD, and how many people they've given it out to. It feels a little bit like an underhanded compliment - like "hey, your stuff is great, but it's certainly not worth any money." It's a sign of the times - it's not done with malice, just with the now ingrained idea that music - all music - IS FREE. I don't like it.

As artists who invest great amounts of time, energy AND MONEY into the creation of our products, I don't think we should help perpetuate this attitude. Music should not be free. It is now, but it shouldn't be. And we owe it to ourselves to remind people of this.

We're seeing an internet democratization of all processes - and content is becoming diluted because of it. Music is now solidly rooted in the "hobby" realm, more than ever, and there's more and more amateur-ish crap flooding every corner of the market. It's a trend I personally do not like. More is not better. More crappy free stuff on your hard drive is not the same as thriving culture.

I think there is a need for some gate-keeper mechanisms, some arbitration of quality. I think labels still need to exist for this reason, and for labels to exist, they must be able to make money.

Nobody will keep putting out quality products (which cost money to make) if the assumption is that it will be free to all the moment it leaves the digital gate.

If trends continue this way, eventually we'll be left with amateur videos of kittens playing piano on youtube as our highest form of entertainment.

Motivations for "making music" are and should be what they have always been, personal and artistic. But continued free "exposure" of ones work cannot be the ultimate and only goal... imagine if Madonna, Prince, Pink Floyd and Bruce Springsteen had kept on playing only "exposure" gigs all their careers? At some point, the product needs to translate into money, so that in turn better, more elaborate product can be made.

Derek, wasn't it you who said "Fame without fortune = New car without keys?"

Everyone in town has my music - yet I have no money. Something ain't quite right with this picture.

I figured I would chime in with an opinion or 10. Derek is right on the money. Not that my music is so much better but I honestly believe that the there are a few problems that aren't being addressed. First and foremost I agree that the primary issue affecting indie artists is obscurity and lack of effective marketing. I believe that the problems with the major labels are the quality and lack of variety of the music that they are releasing AND the narrow demographic that they are marketing music to. It is interesting that teenagers before the internet made mix tapes of songs recorded off of the radio and freely dubbed albums and cassettes. I am willing to bet that piracy was more of a problem then than it is now. After all, the audio quality of an mp3 really is about the equivalent of a high end cassette recording isn't it?

Foley McCreary made a statement that really, really stuck in my head and it involves the "perception" of musicians. Sites like myspace are great for marketing music but it really was intended for people that didn't have commercial websites and domain names to have their own piece of the internet. Directly interacting with fans and doing it often puts the musician on the same level as the fan. This may sound good in theory but think about it. Rock stars used to be viewed as larger than life, someone you looked up to and wanted to be like. The anyone can do it mindset that things like American Idol and Myspace created in essence ruins the mystique and makes it highly unlikely that someone is going to shell out $15 hard earned dollars for something that they no longer RESPECT as a legitimate art form. Despite the fact that you are a trained, professional musician with years of energy put into your craft, perfecting your musicianship, writing and production doesn't register in the head of the guy that made some beats by sampling on his laptop that thinks his "music" is just as good or better than yours.

Finally WHERE is the authentic emotional content of modern music. We all have access to recording equipment and the internet to voice our music but WHAT are we saying? What does the music mean, what kind of monetary value does it really have when there is no emotional value.

These are just my opinions of course.

I really wish more musicians would spend time being humans. Building relationships and waiting for the universe to direct them. This chasing to be a "rock-star" is self-absorbed. The crying woman at the conference would be better off spending her time writing her next masterpiece. She clearly forgot what it means to make music. If your music is stolen, you're miles ahead of the genius in his basement who has never been heard.

ROCK ON!

Karen

--------------

"Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it."

~John Lennon

Derek,

I agree with everything you said about this issue or non-issue of piracy. I have told people for a long time that downloading music for free is no different than recording it off the radio like we use to do back in the day. Although, now you can get entire albums off the net for free, but so what. If the artist and/or these Record companies had more respect for there craft or took the time to put there heart and soul into a project to make it the best album they could possiblly make, people will want to buy your album. We as consumers want to have that classic cd of our favorite artist or that classic cd from a newcomer. Thanks Derek for having the guts to let them know the truth. Peace!!!

-Corey

Great article, good point, and well said! Thanks for sharing. Now we are off to conquer some pigs!!! :)

My views on piracy are contemporay in that I don't mind if some kid rips the songs from my MySpace music player and shares the with "all" his or her friends or even buys the CD and does the same. No problem there. Where I draw the line is when a fee is charged or advertisement revenues are generated and I am not paid and or consulted. More and more of these sites are appearing on the internet under the guise of file sharing. This is file selling albeit indirectly it is still selling. It is the equivalent of me walking into an Art gallery and ripping a piece of a painting off of the wall, selling it, and thumbing my up at the artist. Technology has changed the way we network and distribute music not morality. With that said your work i.e. the recordings and performances should create enough hype itself to generate interest in what you do. The notion that an artist should be concerned with being as popular as popular as possible is why popular music is so horrible. I think an internal examination as to why you make music at all is probably the place to find your views on piracy and those views will either confirm or expose you.

Hi Derek--

Actually, I've gotten to the point where I encourage folks to make copies for others--sometimes happens at a show where a couple of friends can't decide on a CD and I just say buy different ones and share among yourselves, and burn them for others. I also figure because I put attention to the packaging itself, if they like the music, eventually they'll want the CD itself (at least I've always felt that way myself).

By the way, mid May I'll be coming through Portland for the first time in three years. Planning to stop by the CD Baby offices and will see if it's possible to pick up one of those credit card contraptions--finally ready for one. I have a new book coming out that's part memoir, part travel notes, part artist how-to, and think there may be enough credit card sales out there to make me give it a try.

Thanks!

----------Ken Waldman

I was delighted, the day I found my song, "No Blood For Oil" on LimeWire! Delighted, because someone liked the song enough to want to make it available via that site.

Mind you, all my songs are available in full via my website anyway, along with lyrics and chord charts, and many pages have background information to the songs themselves.

As a non touring musician, the internet is the best method I know of letting the rest of the world hear my music. My intention is to make it as easy as possible for people to hear, learn, and sing the songs if they like them enough to do so. Who knows, one day, someone may like one of my songs enough to want to record it.

Now that would be a really happy day.

yup... you got it right there Derek; the future of the indie music industry depends on promotion, not piracy.

Personaly, I believe in Karma, at a fundemental, daily day to day level. You reap what you sow. The key for indi and unknown musicians is to GET YOUR NAME AND YOUR MUSIC OUT THERE!!. Give away free song samplers; lower your production costs and make your albums affordable to all; I prefer to have a 100 000 free downloads of my tunes, knowing full well that a small percentage will come back to buy- and hopefully see my shows as well-, than sit back, charge money for my tunes, and sell 3 CDs a year...

The days of 20$ CDs are over; they're an insult to an artist who wnats to get his art out and to people who struggle to make ends meat. Cut out the fat in the middle of the music food chain and, all of a sudden, the profit margins become much more realistic...

sooo... for this lady you mentioned, I'd tell her to get real...

you're right on when you wrote “More people are killed by pigs than sharks each year, but because shark attacks are more newsworthy, they seem more prevalent. Piracy gets all the attention, but I don’t think most of you in this room have lost more than $30 to piracy.” (I got a big “Booo” from the audience for this.) “Obscurity is your real enemy. Fight obscurity until you’re a household name, then piracy will be more of a problem than obscurity. Until then, worry about pigs, not sharks.”

get your name out there... then worry about piracy...

peace

L

I am one of the owners of a small start-up indie label with only 1 artist (my brother) and 1 album.

So, I spend a lot of time on the internet looking for ways to promote our record.

When I found a file sharing site giving away our album for free, I just emailed them and asked them to stop.

They did, then emailed me back saying sorry, but they really liked the record!

That's my piracy story.

I love this article! As a new indie label (MVB Records), we're learning a lot about the music business. And what greater time to come into the music industry, than when the act of "PIRACY" is more feared than Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden put together lol.

But it's an illusion, obscurity is the real challenge. Direct your time and energy into putting out GREAT MUSIC, and getting your name out there! I'm loving the music business right now, the potential to earn is endless. What are you willing to invest!?

$osa

MVB Records - GREAT MUSIC

Artists, songwriters, musicians, and indie labels all need to "accept the things they cannot change", and "change the things they can"! Piracy will not be going away anytime soon, and none of us can change that.

The fact that mainstream radio is controlled by, and saturated with "major label only" artists with BIG $$$ promotional budgets really "steams my clams", especially when I have an upcoming "mainstream country" release that was recorded by top Nashville musicians that everyone hears around-the-world every day on major radio. Now I am faced with marketing an indie product that is "as good or better" than the major label fluff you hear on mainstream radio. TALK ABOUT A BIG JOB!

The fact is.....you must concentrate on the SOLUTION not the problem! Giving thought and energy to the problem only makes it bigger. Giving thought and energy to the solution makes it bigger as well. So concentrating on piracy instead of the real issue (improving yourself, songwriting, marketing, networking, etc..) you are wasting valuble time and energy on something that is beyond your control. Direct your concerns to "strengthening your weakness" and you'll see immediate improvements in all areas of your life. "ACCENTUATE THE POSITIVE, AND ELIMINATE THE NEGATIVE" and never give up.

Remember....WINNERS NEVER QUIT and QUITTERS ALWAYS LOSE!!!

I agree that piracy at this point should not take so much of our energy away from what we do. I'm sure I've lost more than $30 to piracy, but it still doesn't bring me down. Actually, I welcome it. Because it means that more people are listening to my music and that my name is getting out there. Rock on!

You don't have to kill the shark to catch the fish.

I agree. When that millionaire dude from Metallica said music pirates were taking food from his kid's mouths, I knew the emotion around the issue had gotten totally out of control. I think the suits at the record labels steal WAY more from musicians than pirated music.

Every new technology has freaked out those who had a stake in the old systems. Books to movies. Radio to television. Vinyl LPs to CDs. VHS to movies. DVDs to movies. Corporate record labels and record distribution to the internet. The irony is, people always figure out a way to make MORE money no matter what comes along.

The internet is the greatest boon to musicians since... I don't know what. I have never performed my music. I write and record my tunes in my dining room. But I get to publish my music on CDbaby for $35. Nobody buys my stuff, but so what? I hope it gets pirated and played somewhere. That'll be the greatest compliment I've ever received.

Society makes art relevant in the eyes of pop culture, not good... Society may determine the price of an apple, but the artist determines the quality of the tree's fruit... Sharing is Robin Hood... Stealing is George Bush.

How about this... Because I lost it and want it back... How many times do I have to buy The Beatles - White Album (over the years in various forms), before I can just copy it from my roommate without feeling guilty?

Well put, Derek. Music "piracy" on the level of the independent artist is a free advertisment. If someone spread one of my tunes across the internet and 1 million people had it on their MP3 players, I would feel I'd run a successful publicity campaign. Only the RIAA biggies are really concerned about piracy -- and that's because of loss of control of distribution, not because of some altruistic concern for artist's revenues.

"He who fights the future has a dangerous ennemy", Soeren Kierkegaard

Piracy is not the problem, it is a result from the misalignment of interests between the different parties in the music industry value chain.

What is needed is openness and creativity from the different actors in the value chain in order to embrace the future and its constellation of new ways to enjoy music. As they have been unable to provide this in the last ten years, other new actors are emerging.

This process has an impressive emotional impact across the chain as people feel ununderstood while many existing actors take a long time to fade away. There is a lot of tension and dissonance and it will last for a while.

The people really panicking about piracy are the record companies, because their business model is rapidly becoming obsolete (thanks to CDBaby and other such businesses). Musicians have nothing to worry about.

I will join the chorus and say: Please, pretty please, Mr. Pirate, can you steal my songs? Put them up on whatever illegal downloading service you subscribe to? Distribute them to the world? Pretty please?

I will further note that my CD didn't start selling until I put up mp3's for download on my website. People don't like buying a pig in a poke.

Im with u Derek, piracy is not the biggest problem. There are many other money reducing systems in place out there for the independant musician.

We have to find new ways around these established cash blockers.

Hope all is well. phil

What is really going on with that woman is that she is drinking the major label/publisher Kool-Aid. The truth is that the only ones who really have to worry about piracy are those who make their money by exploiting the talents of others. Between the internet and home recording technology advances, the major labels are becoming dinosaurs and they know it. In the Sci-Fi epic Dune one of author Brian Herbert's characters says something to the effect of "he who controls the spice controls the world. Without absolute power to control what becomes the next hit single the record and publishing industries loose their power. Once they loose their power they loose their profit base. All that they have left to fight this is emotionally charged propaganda.

This is why when the RIAA first set out on their propaganda campaign against piracy they started with musicians and songwriters. And as they have "educated" the public, they have held up people like this woman to make their point. The truth is that the open exchange of ideas is the ultimate goal of capitalist democracy. These people do not want democracy, only blind, drunken greed.

Many of my favorite artists (even before the days of "indie music") were not found by listening to the radio but by making a copy of a friends new album on to cassette tape. Did I get the music for free? Yes but not really, because 1. I would not likely have purchased it to begin with, since this piracy allowed me access to even knowing it existed, and 2. because in many cases, I purchased future releases by the same artist. Sometimes 7 to 10 times.

The sad irony is that the RIAA is cutting off its nose to spite its face. They think that controlling public consumption of music will help them to maximize profits, but all that it does is create an alienated and unmotivated consumer.

Music 'Pirates' aren't your fans anyway!

Like shallow porn addicts they have lost their ability to COMMIT - they go from one new thing to the next, downloading so much that they could never in a million years become the loyal and committed fan/lover, etc.

Personaly - I'm out to gain the fan and friend who has the heart to invest in me as a person, who will be with me from album one to album ten.

THEY are the ones who will buy your record, cherish it and you. I think Phil Keaggy's recent Indie career tells this tale in strides. You can have a living as a musician not by a necessarily humungous fan base, but by a loyal fan base.

Richard Cummins

Consider the practices of a music collector before dowloading existed.

I have been collecting music for many years. I started by getting records by The Fugs, The Mothers of Invention, Captain Beefheart & The Velvet Underground etc. in the cutout bins at Kmart & Woolworths for 69-99 cents. Much of my early collection was what the record companies couldn't sell and were dumping into the suburban shopping centers. As I entered college, I started going to used record stores and getting records people had decided to get rid of and lots of promo copies which had been distributed free. As I look at my 10,000+ vinyl collection, a huge % have stickers which read, Promo- Not for Resale, or have the corners cut or small holes punched in corner of the cover. It is the same with the 4000+ CDs I have collected.

When I worked in used record stores for a number of years, I avoided being a buyer because I didn't like the game of trying to get records/CDs for the least from the person selling; and then pricing them at the highest the market would bear. Though I did enjoy getting records/CDs for considerably less than the stores would put them on the shelves for.

I resisted buying CD's for almost 10 years after the format was introduced, because the retail price of new music almost doubled with the change. Instead, I concentrated on picking up the albums that flooded used record stores as people dumped their turntables. The first few CD's I purchased I bought because it was music by an artist I liked, and was only available in that format. Not having a player (for several years) I would ask a friend to tape then for me.

Along the way, I would also buy new records/CD's by artists I had come to love; and often go see them live when they would come to town. I constantly have recommended artists for others to check out and have lent thousands of records/CDs to friends (mainly musicians), who in turn taped or burnt the music for themselves to listen to.

Now in the age of downloading, I visit music blogs and download. In several instances, I have bought CD's after having gotten the album from a blog because it's by an artist I like; who has put care into the production and to my ear sounds richer than @ 320 mp3's, which compress the low and high ends pretty miserably. In other cases, I have taken time to download music I would have not taken the risk to buy, even used, because I have limited funds to purchase music with. I have also explored genres I only had a passing interest in, but saw some albums for download... so what the heck. Occasionally, I find artists old and new I will start looking to buy... most likely used, unless they swim to the upper tier of my interest at any given time.

Now artists, I love and feel I need to follow their output of albums, I will continue to purchase their CD's (still not totally sold on buying mp3s). I will first look to see if a new album is available at an artist's web site and I like buying directly from the artist. I will also frequent local stores with friendly and knowledgeable staff, I can have a dialogue with about different artists.

I would also like to note, I have been recording music and producing albums on a small label since 1981. We have sold, given away and stored plastic in boxes in my garage for years. We continue make attempts to find a niche in the fossil record, including having a couple CD's which haven't sold through CD Baby (our fault not CD Baby's). I understand the joys and frustration of musicians working on craft and attempting to express themselves through the market place. I'm still hoping some kid stumbles on our wacky little world dumpster diving on the digital highway; and has an experience similar to mine, when I pedaled home on my bike with The Fugs, " It Crawled Into My Hand Honest," after having grabbed it for 69 cents at Kmart.

Unless you're a huge artist whom everyone is aware of and have sold millions of units and are touring frequently, piracy probably hasn't created as much as a dent in your success. Spend your energy making great music and getting it out there. Even though it's easier to blame something or someone else, the buck really stops with you, the artist and that's where you need to concentrate. If you become so popular that hords of fans are pirating your music, may the good Lord smite you with that curse. You'll be doing so well that you'll be able to pay your lawyers as much as you would have made from the sales in the first place and it won't matter much either way to your purse. Fight piracy, but not at the expense and certainly not as an excuse of avoiding being a great artist.

The day that I'm able to find my songs on Limewire...etc., will be a prosperous one. That will be proof that I've actually sold a decent amount of music!

So let's have a brainstorming session about fighting obscurity on a tight (ahem - very very tight, as in 'folk musician tight') budget.

Central Pod Man Says: "The day that I’m able to find my songs on Limewire…etc., will be a prosperous one. That will be proof that I’ve actually sold a decent amount of music!"

Well, I did! And it was the most exciting moment in my recent musical history! To paraphrase: "Piracy IS the sincerest form of flattery!" When I'm making millions then I'll worry about piracy.... or maybe not...

Unlike ol' Garth Brooks who was quoted saying about ten years ago how his childrens,childrens, childrens couldn't spend the money he's made so far and how grateful he was to his fans yet blew up when he found out music stores (remember those) where selling his used CD's without him making a dime on them! I don't get it...

If it weren't for piracy, I'd literally have sold dozen's more albums. An SNL spot would surely have followed. Wake up Derek. :)

Most definitely. I put almost all my music free online. Aren't we all looking for exposure? I hope that some day Piracy does become my problem...that means I would have succeeded!

Remember the 80s and 90s when everybody copied stuff onto cassette tapes? And then copied it again for a friend?

How to not give a damn about piracy-

1. Write better music.

2. Make it sound more professional.

3. Get it heard in more places.

4. Stop wasting time on the internet.

Kirk/zenpool

I think piracy is a none issue to those that have made it in the music world but for independent artist it could goes either way if someone buys your cd and makes 10 of their friends a copy that means you now have 11 fans but that also means you just lost 10 sells-or did you? this is a very tuff subject which would you rather have 10 new fans of your music or 10 sells but for me i would have to say "sells" because not only would i have 10 new fans of my music i would also have a little more money to keep up production and thats why i believe piracy is harmful to independent artist but in reality there no way to stop it and there never will be-this subject kinda falls along with the title of my next cd called- Darrell Deese"should have kept my day job"-- lol--but heres my advice if you truly love music and you want your music to be heard never give up..

promote yourself

advertise yourself

make quality music

play out as much as you can..

focus on those that do like your music

make a quality video put it on youtube

and remember every thing you do will bring in one more fan...and look at it like this--the advice im giving you is something i myself have never done and thats why you have never heard of me "keep it rockin"

Darrell Deese

yeah, you're right..

actually piracy is probably helping most bands get more exposure and helping bands exit from obscurity.

on the other hand, it is a bit harder to sell physical cds these days with everything going digital.. not sure how i feel about that.

but even major artists have been able to still top the charts and sell records while giving away there music before the album even comes out - ie. radiohead, lcd soundsystem. sort of a self-piracy of their own record.

Interesting reading others comments on piracy and I remember how dumb I was for years not even recording my songs for fear of theft. How long it took me to copyright anything- though procrastination, and feeling upset by people who told me they bought a copy of my cd and made copies for all their friends and then told me that they sent them all over this country and beyond. I just wanted to earn enough to pay the cost involved in making my cd and a little more to do another one. It was amazing when I received positive input from so many people and I was actually glad about the piracy, as others where enjoying my songs. It wiped away all the fear, and I give 10 times more cds away than I sell.. Casera sera!!!!!

this reminds me of a friend who is SO concerned about having his songs ripped off, he will NOT perform them even at an open-mic.

of course he need not worry about anyone stealing his music, as no one will ever hear it in the first place.

i think piracy is an over-inflated issue, at least on this level (the small guy trying to make a name for myself)

ever make a mix tape for a friend?

that is piracy.

has that friend ever said "hey song #4 on that tape really rocked, who is that band? i want to go out and buy all their albums"

I used to give my music away, no big deal - I had perhaps 250 downloads, and sold 150 CD's. I've recently signed a distribution deal with a label that reqired me to remove all free downloads from websites. I've done so, Still nobody has noticed, so I cant say they help.

I think the portion of people who download for free may be growing, but once a person becomes a fan, your music is worth something to them. Until that point, it might as well be silence. I think being able to capture a potential fans attention either through music, or through your storyline, something... will sell you more copies than giving your music away.

If you are into making music for the money, downloaders will peeve you to no end, but if you make music for music sake. I think its up to you to decide if you want to offer it for free. I havent found that free full downloads advertise any better than downloaded snippetts. For an indie artist, a lukewarm fan is really a non-fan. You need people who are willing to pay you for your music. Does giving it away help? I dont think it matters.

hey i just got to say... i own about 200 cds and have purchased a lot of mp3s... but almost all of them were downloaded "illegally" first. i only bought them cause i knew i liked them and wanted to support the artist. who wants to shoot in the dark? FREE THE MUSIC PEOPLE!!!

people can pirate my shit, i don't care. i've even provided it to them for free over "illegal" file sharing programs

I really do think that strict anti-piracy laws benefit the middlemen, not the musicians. A musician would make most of their money at concerts and touring and festivals and other live performance, anyway. In other words, they would just adjust their business model to reflect the new realities. A record label can't do that, though - hence the strident antipiracy screaming.

In reality, free recordings can be the best advertisement for a musician. I'm not famous. No one has ever heard of me. I don't have a fancy music degree to serve as a label. I don't have a hope of getting gigs or selling my recordings if I don't give people at least a slight indication of what they're getting, and whether or not I can actually play. My CD cost me something like $500 to record (solo piano recordings are cheap). It's opened a lot of doors for me, though. I've already recouped my costs and then some, and gotten to perform, and to get my music heard, in a lot of places where I would not have gotten it heard otherwise.

Yes, I do charge for my CD; every CD I sell involved a marginal cost - the cost of the CD, the cost of the jewel case, the cost of the label, that sort of thing. But if an adoring fan decides to make a copy of my CD for a friend, I do not lose any money whatsoever. I do not incur an extra marginal cost - the fan does. I do, however, get a benefit - I get another adoring fan who may come to my concert and pay for a ticket, or who may buy my next CD.

I love my adoring fans, and I don't want to insult them by calling them thieves. I'm too grateful that they exist at all.

I feel that the more contracted focus on getting every dime for any and all music stifles the flow of things and usually benefits companies more than individual artists.

The more expansive approach of knowing some of one's music will be shared for free because people want to tell their friends about is a good way to get one's music out there in new ways and to new people, and serves everyone: the new listener learns about a great new artist, the artist gets heard by more people (which most likely results in more sales), and the process of sharing some of one's work for free just feels good.

piracy sux. p2p sux. i do rely on my music sales derek. we need every cd sale we can make. our cds are available worldwide in stores or online , and we are signed by a label in europe. , we are not obscure.

so i have to disagree.

i do not like to see my creations online on the p2p programs.

it hurts us all. we have to pay producer, studios, musicians, artwork, photographers, mixing, mastering, duplication, production,.... the list goes on. warehouse / rehearsal space, gear....

so derek, you are wrong!

if i was some unknown schmoe with no label, no fans , or a beginner, etc... then i could see where giving out the music free online, can help get the name out.

but not in my case or my band's.

our label sux. they dont do much promotion for us.

we are not unknown , but we arent too known in the grandscale either.

so i guess im in a weird place here. im kind of between the unknown schmoe and the known rockstar... depends how you look at it.

but i still think P2p HURTS us. and me.

thanks. just my 2 cents.

Derek, you are absolutely right.

In the retail business, they euphemistically call it "shrinkage", assign a percentage of overall sales as "lost", and move on. I often think that this issue should be treated much the way magazines treat it -- as a "pass along" rate, i.e., many publications cite the "pass along" rate in addition to their subscription totals when touting their success, the idea being that if the mag is good enough to be passed along to several friends, it's high-quality. For magazines supported by advertising, they literally consider this part of their circulation total. The magazine with the supposed highest pass-along rate? MAD magazine, which has been around since well before I was born and probably will be around for a while after I'm dead.

I think that there is not a concerted effort to "bootleg" people's CDs, especially indie bands. Real music fans want to have the original CD so that they can claim they were into the band way back when.

The piracy issue may have some credence at the million-selling level, but that sort of bootlegging requires actual manufacturing plants and is mostly practiced in China these days, and could be stopped pretty quickly if there was a taste for trade sanctions these days.

When I do events I usually use pretty simple ticketing and wristbanding schemes, and people always ask if I'm worried people will try to sneak in. My response is always the same: "I should be so lucky". I think anyone doing indie CDs should also look at the reality that they would be lucky if there were enough demand that wholesale piracy even made sense.

Unless you are the Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, U2, ABBA ect...

a.e. someone with a financial empire to lose, you're nuts to be concerned about piracy. Frankly I would be flattered if people found my work so interesting and desirable that they had to bootleg it. The media attention from that would be a pretty damn good consolation prize in my book.

I don't think people are getting your point.

Yes, multiple generations of youth have now been raised to think they are entitled to free music, and that artists are expected to make their money via live performances only. This means anyone who doesn't perform live will basically go broke. But it also means artists depend entirely on industry promotion and becoming widely known, which is (ironically) supported by piracy! Kids simply don't buy CD's any more. They don't see the need.

The biggest issue for independent artists is that there is still no mechanism to really promote them and get their music heard by thousands or millions of potential fans. CDBaby does a phenomenal job delivering CD's (mostly to older >35 people who still want the real deal) and managing digital media sales (which younger people DO buy).

But no one in the industry -- other than rap -- has yet to address the stunningly huge variety of music available and get artists heard. To change this, it will take a clever industry insider to create a new paradigm of music "radio", one which thrives on connecting artists with fans. MP3.COM was the original brilliant answer, but it got bought out and crushed. Then, I thought Live365 would be that answer, but it sort of fizzled out too.

Maybe RadioBaby.com?

Absolutely. I say to them: "The world is different now. Get over it. Think about alternatives. Think about all the different ways to pull it off WITHOUT relying on the old sales model. There are many ways not even yet thought of."

Had to buy a part for a vacuum cleaner recently. Called a local retail store. The owner got upset with me over the phone when I told him I could order the same part for about 30% less than what he was selling it for. He went on a rant about the internet putting local stores out of business.

Same losing mentality. Get a life everybody! You expect the world to halt so you can preserve your obsolete business approach? Don't tell me it's just for the art. If it were, you wouldn't be hollering about the money! Getting a little tough out there? Get over it. Get creative. Get busy.

peace,

-Forsyth

I totally agree with you Derek. Piracy is a form of publicity. If you're getting that much attention with your music, then keep doing what you're doing. Piracy shold the least of your problems. The real issue here is getting your songs out there. Be prolific-write as much music as you possibly can and then follow up on it. I love this next phrase-"THE FORTUNE IS IN THE FOLLOW-UP". You can have the greatest songs ever written by mankind in your library, but if they're just sitting on a shelf collecting dust, they're worthless.

As an independent musician, who runs two (very) independent record labels all by myself, I've obviously thought a lot about these issues over the last few years. While I have had my moments of being pissed about the situation, I've come to a few conclusions that have put my mind at rest.

1.

People downloading music off of file sharing sites download way more music than they would have purchased or ever listened to if they had to pay for it. I don't have specific numbers on this, but for instance, if your album has been downloaded 20,000 times, than you would not have sold 20,000 albums. The number downloaded probably represents 10 times (or more of) what your potential sales could have been.

2.

The times have changed. Stop holding on to the idea of the old music business. With the birth of any new media comes the death of the previous one. In this case, the old media is the music industry as it was 20 years ago.

We're in a weird transition period still, and 20 years from now will look back on it and better understand what was happening. Marketing needs to work differently. Revenue streams need to work differently, and honestly, many people who are reading this website or sell their CD's on CD Baby, wouldn't have been working musicians 20 years ago, because the means of production were not in the hands of the people in the same manner that they are today. Anyone who can afford a laptop and music production software can physically produce and release music. This changes everything. It doesn't just change who can bring their art to the table. It changes everything.

The scale of the music economy could be thought of as reflecting the amount of people participating in it. Perhaps it's the same amount of money divided up among millions of more people.

So, this is an exciting time with many possibilities rather than everyone hoping to get their foot in the door with the A&R person of some giant corporate label.

If we have the ability to share our music in a myriad number of places on the interwebs than there must also be other ways of making money with it. Anything that's really rewarding is not going to be that easy to attain...usually.

nice. your answer to the question is so obviously true--

even without the shark/pig analogy, which just brings it into clearer focus.

I have been in that woman's position before, though, so..

as with many other things that I used to embrace or believe,

I'm sympathetic to her horse-blinderesque'd platform.

Thanks for the insight, Derek, and congratulations on your new venture. I agree with your obscurity versus piracy option. Every successful venture must tolerate some kind of "piracy" in order to succeed; from Microsoft on down to your local retailer. You have to let customers into your store - even if they plan on stealing your stuff. But to focus only on that - takes away from the beauty and immense reward that creating music provides.

As a small label owner, I'm finding it much more positive and energizing to focus on why this is the greatest time ever to be in the music business. Sounds crazy, but the opportunities for the entrepreneur have never been better. The customer base has never been bigger. The desire for the unusual and unique has never been so welcoming. Write on, my musical brothers and sisters. The worldwide fan base is knocking on your door.

I'd be honored if anyone cares to read more about how lucky we are to be living in this day and age, creating music. There is no limit, no restrictions, no ceiling. All hail The Long Tail, Tim Ferris, Seth Godin, Bob Lefsetz and now, Derek Sivers. www.scootermusicblog.blogspot.com

Ultimately, it's the consumer that decides, and it's the consumer whose habits need changing. Pointless for the musicians to go beserk over piracy. It's the bastard child of consumer culture, and sadly here to stay. No thanks to the majors, who over the years have left most punters feeling ripped off, each time they spent money on a cd. Though the artist is central to the whole equation, the majors have traditionally treated artists as mere pawns, and that fact has not been lost on the public. Record companies are crooked, that is the popular perception, and therefore stealing from them is no big deal. Peer to peer is nothing new. It's the technology that is new. People wanting stuff for free is not new either. Trouble is, technology, as it marches on, is becoming democratic everyday, and slowly eating away at the power base of the majors. Today, there are a lot of indie's around, however the public has been slow to recognise the difference. Still hung over from the old days, where sharing music harms no one but the labels. No one cares about the hard work, that the average muso has to put in. You can't really blame the average guy, cause all he'll ever get to see, is the glamour. The blood, the sweat or the tears, is never ever shone. Most think about how much they will save by not paying for the music. I don't think there is any malice in it. I wouldn't even call it piracy, more music appreciation. It is piracy by default, but should never be confused with the major pirate operations, that will mass produce counterfeit copies for huge profit. That's just immoral.

Think the public should be made more aware that it's not just the record companies that incur the costs, especially in today's climate. Much as one is inclined to tip a waiter, one should be encouraged to think in similar terms when it comes to the music. It's not how much you give, it's the thought that counts. If we had more people thinking like that, maybe just maybe, we might begin to see a pattern emerge, that will counter the status quo and render obsolete this malaise, once and for all.

Peace And Atomic Love!!

I will agree that Indie musicians shouldn't really be concerned with piracy at this point. I am an Indie musician and am more concerned with just getting my music out so they will want to hear more in the future and make a purchase. Coming out of obscurity is a big hurdle that is not easy to jump. Hard work is a big key jumping the hurdle. May we all have success with our songs.

There's probably been piracy as long as people have had recording devices. The bona fide product has more kudos and is more pleasant as an artefact and I suppose is a more desirable thing to have than the CD-R or the cassette. Given the choice, those with income would probably rather have an unpirated copy of the record, and for those that don't there are ways of getting it. Funny how people feel guiltier about pirating a Madonna album than one made by a grassroots performer.

I agree that to have your stuff copied is somehow a positive, and to have someone else say they wrote it, while obviously wrong, would be some kind of vindication of its quality.

hahaha I only wish people were that crazy about us to steal our music

Our two best sellers are the songs I gave away free downloads of on myspace.

Go figure?

Derek-

You are full of hot air. Finding your music on .ru sites for sale is not a good thing. Watching file sharing sites rise up above legitimate distributors on google searches is not a good thing. Obscurity, cult status - these can be good things. Its OK to sell only a thousand or few hundred records if that is what you set out to do. It has become increasingly difficult to even do that sometimes. I'm past the breaking even point with my last record and I am not claiming that everyone who downloaded it illegally would have paid for it if that was the only choice, but this sort of behavior shouldn't be encouraged. Come on Derek- you are in the business not so much of selling Cd's but getting artists to pay you to sell theirs. Granted the woman you spoke to was an overemotional flake, but your response in a sense sounds like a "once I get your 35 bucks I don't give a shit if people steal your music, get famous already and get over it"....Not sure if that is really the best response Derek. Think about this one, eh?

You must read (or download) a book called "The Pirate's Dilemma". The author spoke at PodCamp NYC this weekend and made some pretty interesting arguments for the pirates out there. Not sure I agree with all of them, but at the very least he said "go bittorrent my book, or buy it."

Pax,

Matthew

I just finished my first children's CD and, of course, I would prefer people buy it, then copy and give it to all their friends. However, the way I look at it is, 1) I cannot control that, and 2) the more people hear it and spread it around, the more it gets talked about, the more people will want the next one, and they'll go to the website to get it. Besides, most people, I've found, are honest, and if they received a pirated copy, they'll go the website and buy others for their friends and family. After all, the pirated copies don't have the cool artwork and illustrations on the inside. So, I'm just going to keep doing what I do, and when piracy becomes a real issue for me, I'll probably be able to retire by then!

OOps, I can see I made a typo. The first sentence should read, "I would prefer people to buy it, RATHER than copy it and give it to all their friends."

Obscurity in the dimnous not clearly seen or understood I don't

want that. The lady in the audience needs to enter a safe and

lock the door then she will not have worry about any one stealing

her. I was like that for years now I want to make people laugh.

Navy Jim

Well, I wouldn't get all worked up over piracy, but I don't go so far as War-N does and say file sharing is a wonderful free marketing opp we should all embrace. When I finish a live show I have a line of people (when I'm lucky) waiting to buy CDs. Occasionally someone slips up and says something like, "Oh, I'm buying your latest CD, 'cause my friend just bought your first CD and we're going to burn them for each other." Now, CD sales at events is a big source of cash income. It's an impulse purchase: Take me and my band home with you tonight in this little plastic package! So I reply with a smile, "Every time a fan burns my music it burns a hole in my pocket!"

Dimension Zero says:

"Walking through a local painting gallery yesterday I was envious that each painting was selling for $2,000 each. By just selling one painting a month, this artist could live off their art. Maybe musicians need to create some “high end” art to sell at their live shows. NIN did this recently with Ghosts by including a very nice album art book (perfect for the coffee table!) and selling the package for $300 each. Though, this may only work for legendary artists such as NIN."

I think any artist/musician could do this. The lesser known ones might sell fewer copies and for a bit less money, but they should still take advantage of the big fans who are willing to pay for something special. Even if you can only sell 10 copies for $250 each and make $2500, that's still a hell of a lot more than if you simply sold 10 more normal CDs for $15 and made $150.

Hey Derek, First, how is London? I lived in England for 10 years in the 80's in Surrey....a little town called Weybridge. Loved it. Second, I was in Wal-Mart the other day and I saw Leonardo DiCaprio's environmental awareness movie "The 11th Hour" for sale for $5. Without thought, without concern, without thinking "can I afford this?" I bought it. $5 is nothing, barely a gallon of gas these days, a latte, a visit to Taco Bell. So I have been thinking....in these challenging economic times, about reducing the price of my CD's to $5. I have 5 CD's on CD baby and have in one year made back half of my investment. I love CD baby. I do sell CD's at every live show, but can't help thinking I'd sell more.....and spread the music around much more with cheaper (less expensive!) CD's. I use discmakers and can get my CD's made for about $1. I get 1,000 copies at a time. I was further encouraged in this idea by your article on Piracy and obscurity.....I'd love to know what your thoughts are. Finally, what City is next on the list for you? I can recommend Amsterdam, Copenhagen, St. Tropez, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Zurich and Luscerne.

Thanks, Andy Mason

www.cdbaby.com/cd/masonandy4

wow, you are right Derek.

keeping an eye on the issues of your current career are enough to handle.. let alone wasting time wondering what you will put on your rider when you play Carnegie Hall.

once again, CDbaby was the best investment so far in my career.

[from morgan]

The Pigs and The Sharks.

They are one in the same. Whatever your end goal, local supremacy, regional success or multi billionaire musical magnate, the amount of success to be gained from recorded music it limited. The minute you record onto any sort of media from 45's to .mp3, you have already lost control of it.

Your main source of income from that point forward should be the live show. Live music is what's real and worth paying for, anything else is a mere reproduction.

Make people want to get off their butts and come out to hear you play, in the mean time be grateful that people think your music is good enough to steal.

Now that makes total sense. What's blocking that raving woman and me? FEAR.

I see Piracy as free marketing as well. I think this is why myspace gives artists the option to allow people to download a song for free, no?

Mykel

What's happened here is that the core issue, i.e. 'what's holding you back?' has become entangled with another issue, 'piracy', which is actually an entirely different one; I clicked on the discussion because I was interested in 'what's really keeping you from where you need to be?', the question posited outside the parenthesis....

;)

So, to steer the conversation more towards THAT, I'd like to throw out an underlying 'core' argument - which is that, all actions (e.g. investing in better recordings, marketing campaigns, attending seminars/networking, etc) aside, what 'really' holds back anyone is their internal, personal Comfort Zone, i.e. 'what you believe is what you perceive'. No matter how many gazillion affirmations one makes, the 'blueprint belief' underlying one's psychological structure is what holds us in the 'discomfort comfort zone' year in, year out...everyone I know who is very successful in their field found some way to break through that comfort zone - those who didn't, stayed pretty much where they were DESPITE getting 'the big break' (I've known several people like that, too - you know, they suddenly signed that elusive Big Record Contract or got that Big Exposure and All The Attention yet somehow, after all the initial excitement, it trickled out somehow and the momentum was lost). Obviously, actions support the comfort zone (i.e. it's highly unlikely one will get to where one wants to be by simply staying in one's room writing songs and taping them on GarageBand and hoping for some miraculous 'intervention' for the next step to take place...but f'sure, BEING in that room writing and recording IS a comfort zone all unto itself, so that's bonafide - thing is, is THAT where you want to STAY? Just for now, or the rest of your life? Honestly? I ask because some days I've noticed that's actually all I want - whereas others, I can't stand the thought of spending the whole day alone writing and recording...indicating to me that there is a desire for something Bigger and Better goin' on, too...!).

How people who 'push through' their Comfort Zone to 'occupy' another one - which at first is actually UNcomfortable, because it's unfamiliar, and familiarisation takes time - is the underlying question, so far as I can see. I've observed how successful people do this and it's not by making excuses or creating obstacles to their success (e.g. piracy!). The reason most fabulously famous people became famous by degrees (instead of overnight, a myth which the media perpetuates) is because they were adjusting to 'different temperatures of comfort zones' incrementally, building on small successes and believing in what was possible for them as a result of seeing those small successes. The problem for people who get a lot of success overnight (genuinely!) is that deep down, they tend not to believe it - it came suddenly, so it 'could' go away just as suddenly again...and so voila! - frequently, it does....

Any other thoughts on this anyone cares to contribute?

'Sfunny, I just finished setting up everything to get my first box of 100 CDs at the OASIS Express site. After I put together a cover w/ picture & the inside "Thanks..." & backing musician notes stuff, I got to the CD itself & I literally put on it: "Unauthorized Duplication is Discouraged" - because I figure it's going to happen anyway. Every now & then I GOOGLE the name of my performing duo & have discovered there's an internet radio station that I HAVE NEVER even heard of playing one of our (cover) songs! Piracy lives! But like War-N pointed out - the labels probably plunder the most. I believe I read somewhere that the Kingsman signed away the publishing rights to "Louie, Louie" for under $40. They eventually regained some control after years of litigation - but talk about piracy!

Derek was right in his portrayal of obscurity being a bigger threat to artists than piracy, which was really a point meant to motivate artists to get out and promote their music, that it's sometimes necessary to let it go for free to achieve a goal.

I'm not fond of the RIAA, precisely because of all the negative publicity generated by suing grandma's, pre-teen's, dead people and so forth. They use tactics that turn people off to big music while trying to protect an outdated/dying business model which is a whole topic in itself. The question is whether the money made in the music itself, in selling tracks? I personally think not. All the real money is made in merchandising, concerts, etc. It boils down to how much exposure you get which drives popularity, in turn drawing in the money. This is why having your music in the hands of pirates is not necessarily such a bad thing. Sun Tzu would say use them as another channel of exposure, much the same as sending that demo to the radio or handing out your CD's for free on the subway. I'd love to have them come raid my site, maybe I'll even put up a sign "Pirates Welcome" it sure beats my current obscurity. I probably didn't say this well, let the criticism commence...

I wrote a wedding song that has been played at marriage ceremonies, sometimes with and sometimes without my knowlege or permission.

I've never refused any request by anyone to use it.

One Sunday I was at church and my companion picked up a copy of a marriage program that had been left in the pew from the day before.

It listed the song and I had no idea about who either the bride or the groom was, or where they obtained a copy of the song.

"Doesn't that bother you?" she asked.

"Not at all," I smiled. "I am honored that they liked the song well enough to include in their wedding ceremony and wish them well.

"And besides, I appreciate being given this opportunity to give them a wedding gift, without ever meeting-much less-knowing them."

-30-

Derek,

you were right on in your comments.

It is the difference between taking personal responsibility and assigning blame. Most people opt for the latter. Sometimes nations do. It is part of the human condition.

But the real leaders and succeeders are usually people who have accepted responsibility for their condition.

I like the "pigs and sharks" analogy. I'm going to use that...

yours,

ken dirschl

There is some RESPECT do to any artist or musician for whatever composition they created,ORIGINAL is bringing expressions within out styles,

sounds and more, so privacy or respect to the individuals who had or has

the talent to create new music is a must. boothleg music or download is like

down grade, step up create your own, show some respect to your fellow

artist. R E S P E C T Y O U R S E L F

Derek- good ideas you are sharing, thanks. But - oh no! Why spoil the wisdom with an image of yet another callous murder of a shark? I urge you to seek a deeper connection with - and to celebrate - all living things. Peace. Leslie Zak

Of the $12 billion that is the annual US music business, $8bn of that is in music licensing. *That's* where the money is, and piracy of your music by consumers can actually help you get more licensing revenue. Or, better yet, forget about piracy, and put your music out on a creative commons license to legally enable sharing, and then make up the money by commercially licensing your music, now that you have a fan base.

-john

One time I conducted an experiment with a CD I made. I decided that it should be free--completely, no strings attached. I announced the release of this disc over the Internet on a variety of sites and gave them my email address. To make a long story short, I gave away close to 500 copies of the disc, which I produced and manufactured at home. I wanted to prove to myself that it was not the music, but the distribution that was limited. I think I did that and it convinced me that my music wasn't to blame. I'm flattered if someone wants to pirate what I've done and I hope it will drive other traffic to my music in the process. That lady sounds like she had a bad hair day and I wouldn't put much stock in what she says.

...oh, yeah, watch out for killer pigs!

absolutely!!!

I guest it depends on your POV, people are going to take what they can and give nothing back. If your out there and being heard is that so bad?

I don't know whether piracy is hurts sales or not.

I do know that I get a number of people complimenting me on my last CD release but I know they didn't pay for it.

Who knows whether that hurts or helps you. For all you know, that one guy tells 3 of his friends about your stuff and those guys go and buy it off iTunes.

What surprises me is how willing people are to put up with the crappy quality of MP3 files compared to the full .WAV versions on CD's.

You'd think that people would download your MP3 because they like it, then go and buy the decent quality version so that they can enjoy it the way it's supposed to be listened to.

Instead, they seem to be downloading 128kbps MP3's and thinking that's what music is supposed to sound like.

Piracy is stealing. If I steal the pipe wrench out of a plumbers truck, does it then right the wrong if I hire him to fix my faucet? Obscurity is bad , but being disrespected by having your stuff stolen is bad as well. You are wrong on this one Derek.

ABOUT PIRACY

We should be our brothers keepers,as we walk along the street seeing people selling illegal music along the street,etc ,we should not go away as if we are not concern about piracy,call the police,and such call should be refund to such person who have coloberate in dealing with a crime,the artistic sociaties and organisation should pay more attention in public publicity in educating the public about the arrest of piracy anywhere in the world,people should coloberate any where,at any place,challege the illegal saler who is a thief,and this campaign should be of mass media to all places in the world, people and public should be encourage with recommendation under the programme for war against piracy.and to end it well,all criminals arrested under this crime should be publish up to the last buyer confess by the criminal,and the police objective during this case is to get all information about who are is buyers and they should be given public publication under criminal offence with serious punishment.

Hey Derek,

Any indie artist should be so lucky as to have to worry about piracy. The idea is to get your music heard by as many people as possible. If some of them pay and some don't that's the breaks. All in all it amounts to more sales. It's a business equation.

Thanks for keeping it real Derek :0)

Take Care,

Tara La'Dell

www.TaraLadell.com

Derek,

Re: the piracy thing

Hell man, I should have read this a loooong time ago. I can see why the woman got mad at you; but you put the idea so succinctly that it just opened my eyes and gave me a different perspective. Thank you.

Shane Mcgregor already said part of it, but I'd like to finish the quote. It goes:

Dear Lord,

Grant me the SERENITY to accept the things I cannot change, the COURAGE to change the things I can, and the WISDOM to know the difference.

It works for people who used to get drunk all the time, and now need not to. It should work for an industry that is on such a financial bender that it can't recognize its own inevitable demise.

I pretty much agree with Derek's response. I understand that even technologies like digital watermarking and deep-packet-inspection only take a few days to crack in the open source community. It would have been nice to get to the bottom of her question which is, "How do I limit the availability of my recordings to only paid channels?"

I think the answer is simple. You only make your recordings available to ASCAP and BMI monitored radio stations, sync licensing, and you never under any circumstances make a CD or MP3 available for sale or download to the public. You just can afford to take the risk of piracy associated with distribution.

What this article really attacks is so much deeper than we might realize. The "something internal" that Derek refers to here is really an issue of whether or not to be proactive about the things you can control or just continue to be reactive to what is going on externally. You pick! I'll take the proactive route though :)

Derek, you were going to be attacked regardless of the manner in which you presented the same message of opposition to what this woman felt. There's a great saying, "life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you choose to respond."

Hi Derek,
I had the pleasure of seeing you in Berkeley years ago in a cdbaby artist gathering. I Agree with your article. I feel that after releasing my 6th, I am wondering if perhaps there is no hope for me in music sales of my improvisational albums. I have found lots of joy in creating music. In the beginning it started as a way for me to own the music which I could use in my videos and multimedia without having to pay or own other copywritten music. I found i enjoyed it so much and found satisfaction that the material particularly the lyrics of what i am saying needs to be said. I have not discovered how to become a success just yet. I wondered if you might care to take a listen?
Thankfully,
Ellis Simpson Byers III
elly belly
Viabelly Arts

I came in late, so I can't view the crying lady.

I can't discuss piracy because my lifestyle choice is to be poor but honest with a black and white morality. I realize that others believe in grey, but I can't join in to condone that dialogue.

What I can do is observe that artists tend to be like liberals, rather than business-like conservatives, in that they don't make a habit of doing cost-benefit ratios in their head at all times.
(Obscurity or pirates?)
For example, a two-day women's conference "wasted" a quarter of their time, over half a day, deciding who would chair the conference.

Another example: some of us do too much "pencil sharpening and tidying up" before we start our daily practice. "Too much" could be avoided by staying aware of cost-benefit.

I wonder if there's a metaphor for that? The pigs and sharks one is good. Nice going, Derek.

Good point! What woman is everyone referring to in these comments, I don't see her post?!
Ah, sorry for the confusion. A previous version of this article started with the story of a woman who confronted me at a music conference in 2006, spitting mad, saying that piracy was destroying her career. Then I told this story. A couple years ago I edited the article and removed the unnecessary intro. — Derek