What I did belies why
Imagine you host a dinner party with two doctors and two accountants. You introduce the doctors to each other and the accountants to each other, assuming they’d have the most in common.
But actually one doctor got into it because her mother died unnecessarily of medical neglect, and she’s on a mission to make sure that never happens again. The other doctor is in it for the money.
And actually one accountant got into it because her dad’s family business was the victim of embezzling, and she’s on a mission to make sure that never happens again. The other accountant is in it for the money.
You can’t assume the reasons why people are doing what they do.
I learned this slowly and uncomfortably after I sold my music distribution company. Knowing I had a successful exit, people assumed I was an entrepreneur, and wanted me to tell them how to be a better entrepreneur. They asked me to mentor at business schools, where people would bring in PowerPoint presentations showing their financial projections, and talk about raising rounds of financing, and all this stuff I had never dealt with and knew nothing about.
It took me a long time to realize that, like the doctor and accountant story, I must have looked like an entrepreneur from the outside. Yes I founded, grew, and sold a company. But really all I wanted to do was to help musicians. I could have done it by promoting concerts, or being a record producer, or donating to a musicians’ charity — but in my case I built a distribution system for those who had no other distribution. So technically yes, I was an entrepreneur, but it seems I didn’t have much in common with all these entrepreneurs I was meeting. (When I met musicians, it was always such a welcome relief!)
I still think of everything I do as art, not business. It’s personal expression, creative exploration, testing out ideas just to see what happens.
Writing a song isn’t that different from writing computer code. It’s all just having a little vision or spark of an idea, then seeing how you can make it happen — for its own sake.
Starting a band isn’t that different from starting a company. It’s something you do when you’re unable to make your creative vision happen by yourself.
I’ve never done anything just for the money. It’s always been secondary, and always just happened as a side-effect of following my interests. So I don’t have any advice for people who are trying to make money. I don’t know what that’s like.
This is the main reason I stopped doing interviews four years ago. Most interviewers just seemed to want to ask my business advice. I’m feeling ready to do interviews again, as long as we can talk about creativity, identity, exploration, learning, unlearning, communication, cycling, culture, psychology, and all kinds of other things. But I’m not up for talking about business.
Don’t confuse the medium with the message.
Don’t confuse the tool with the goal.
Don’t confuse the vehicle with the path.
Being the richest man in the cemetery doesn’t matter to me. Going to bed at night saying we’ve done something wonderful… that’s what matters to me. — Steve Jobs
What's been the better race, Le Tour, Vuelta, World's? So many great cycling stories this year.
Derek,
Always excited to read another piece of yours! Love your heart and pure intentions. I strive to embody those characteristics as well.
I've been podcasting a little over a year now and hope to one day collaborate with you on an episode. We could talk about anything...just let the conversation flow organically. That would be really special.
Hope you and your loved ones are well :)
~Derek
Another great post. Helps me make sense of some things.
Thanks again.
Well put! The why is the key that so many miss.
We also help musicians and apparently "run a business", so this post resonates with us big time! And we're loving all these new posts, Derek, thank you :)
unlearning - more of your lovely words on this please sir.
See Unlearning — Derek
Love it. Thanks Derek. Your message is one more people, not just entrepreneurs, need to hear, imho. "What for" rather than "how much."
I've never run a business (raised a family, though) and I would guess that creativity, identity, exploration, learning, unlearning, communication, cycling (or some other focused physical discipline), culture, psychology (especially psychology) and all kinds of other things are key elements of a thriving business. Ironic. I can't wait to hear your interviews again!
The way you ran CD Baby reflected the gist of what you are saying here, that your motivation was about realizing your ideas and using your inspiration and creativity to guide fellow musicians along your beaten path. When choosing band members to partner with, one can never really know their true motivation, but the failure to trust and take risk is paralyzing.
fantastic, i love it! it left a big smile on my face on this rainy in the netherlands.
I always saw you as a good person, not an entrepreneur. Your posts tend to help people be better versions of themselves. Also, business people (as you pointed out) have a bad association of greed. I like to do projects, build things, participate in adventures, etc. Some of those are with family, some are with friends and some are with customers. They key though is trying to be good and helping others out or helping them be better afterwards as well.
One thing I'd warn though is to not avoid talking about business, because you and I (purposely or not) are redefining what business is. Business schools say it's all that stuff we don't like, but we know that business can also be a lot of stuff we do like. We know that you can have a heart and run a business. We know that you can love your customers more than your business. These are things other folks looking to live life to its fullest need to hear, so that they can say, "Oh, since you put it that way, I too want to be in business." If enough people like us do that, then we change the definition of business and perhaps make the world a better place while we're at it. :)
It's interesting to better understand how you see yourself Derek.
Though, I think it's important to realise that when we have no real financial need for a project to be successful, we probably behave differently than if the success of our project was fundamentally important, or even essential to us.
Maybe we relax more, and in so doing, can focus better on the work in front of us. So that the outcome may be more prosperous, even though the profitability aspect may initially have been a secondary thought.
Though creating an outstanding result is no guarantee of its success in our lifetimes. We know that persuasion and an attractive offer also have to come into the mix.
Sometimes, desperation for a successful financial outcome can help drive us forward to a better result. At other times, in other situations, too much financial desire gets in the way, allow us to take our eye off the ball, fall off the "quality pedestal".
Perhaps you sold your business during the "Internet golden years of peak hype", when most business buyers thought the gravy train would just keep growing for ever.
Today, we're in a different business environment. Americans especially ... are having to "get real". Those who strive to exist on hype tend to be revealed as lacking. Today, we can benefit from getting all of our ducks lined up, getting a plan as well as a product or service solution that people want, or who can be sustainably be persuaded to choose.
But perhaps also today, having the desire to help people alone, without a plan to monetise what we do, may not be enough to thrive - or even survive - at least perhaps for most folks.
If you can gain enough attention, selling low priced impulse buy items like books or ebooks can be easy compared to persuading buyers to opt for higher priced items.
Yet one thing is still the same: any business really can thrive by getting the attention and trust of their customers.
Breaking through the white noise is perhaps the biggest challenge today - which might help explain some of the antics we come across.
Down to talk Creativity, Identity, Exploration, Learning, Unlearning, Communication, Cycling, Culture, Psychology, and all kinds of other things with you.
No business.
Promise.
Mr. Indigo
Isn't your very own definition of entrepreneurship (a vehicle e.g. to help artists) as good and as valid as everyone elses definition?
I believe there certainly is a big overlap between art and entrepreneurship and I'm fascinated by the "artsy aspects" of entrepreneurship and companies.
It's about bringing something new into the world. And at it's root it's human creativity.
And then there also is this new transformed view of entrepreneurship where purpose and sustainability are the most important driving factors. For example "B Corporations" like Ecosia.
So... I'm completely with comment #12.
I have a record on CD baby.com entitle "Hard Hip Hop" written, produced, and recorded by myself Jason La'Quinn Myles-. I did some research on the founding of cdbaby and I stumble upon some of your thoughts, memoirs, and philosophies. Of course I'm seeking help with my music, but I'm interested in "Saying Yes To Less" and the reason you sold cdbaby.
AMEN to this!
More money has never made people “happier”!
Thank you for showing how BEing is more important than DOing.
In kindness.
I love reading this about you.
I just attended a conference (Everything Conference) where a bunch of people who do a lot of things, just gathered. We shared ideas, support, creative methods, and a whole lot of love and laughter.
Sure, there were successful biz owners, but the point was to delight in all the things, not divorce our success from our creativity.
Firstly, regarding business school that one or two folks mentioned:
A 21 year old junior manager at a donut shop chain was figuratively falling asleep in his university business classes: He already knew it. I for one, simply from living in non-business life, would fall asleep in any first or second year class for sure. Business used to be learned on the job: It's not hard to learn, and I would not advise anyone to blindly major in it.
I once helped a struggling young man to go from getting C minuses in business to getting A's in his new chosen major. I walked around with him one night talking. I said a businessman sees a smaller circle, but as citizens we see a bigger circle, and it its the bigger one that he probably felt responsible for. This advice helped him to justify changing.
Secondly, this post reminds me of Confucsious, who went from city-state to city-state being honoured and employed by the kings for his knowledge of agriculture, fish culture and warfare. But his truth love was the liberal arts and confucianism.
By the way, his best war advice was never taken: "Give the peasants a fair deal and they will rise up from the very fields to defend you and make you unconquerable, oh king."
Thirdly, this reminds me of the man who invented the practise of management as something that can be taught and acted on, and invented business as a faculty. At the time, there was only economics and sociology, and any thing he wrote about commerce would fall through the cracks. "Don't do it" he was told, but he did, and invented (among other things) management by objectives.
He got his degree in law, but never practised law for a single day: He merely got his degree to have a credential in academia. That man was Peter Drucker.
To my amusement, in Japan there is a live TV series, an anime series and a book, moshidora, where a school girl wants to be a team baseball managER but by mistake buys Drucker's books on manageMENT. And then uses his principles to help the team. Drucker is well known over there.
My point is that Drucker, as is very clear from his writings, was a liberal arts "whole society" guy. He only paid attention to business to help society be more productive.
Lastly, the guys I mention above all remind me of Derek. No need to take any narrow calling too seriously. The most important hat I wear is my Citizen one.
Thank you! Gave me chills.
I’ve heard you being interviewed several times. And I can remember some of those questions you were asked too. What I appreciate the most is your genuineness and you being true to who you are.
The business you created had many other profound effects that will be around centuries from now. CD Baby has allowed people to archive their music when it simply might have disappeared into dust. Future humans will uncover amazing things and have amazing experiences because of the business you created. Bravo!!!
I beg to differ, Derek.
You are doing interviews again.
You're interviewing yourself in all of this...and it's fearless and peerless.
Thank you for not talking business. :)
You made your own luck - that trivialises you’re achievement somewhat. A lot of what happens is in spite of us at times...technically any job you have ever done you did for the money. We humans / earthlings have invented all the bad sh#t...and a lot of good sh#t too...but the bad sh#t will be our undoing...We invented money time and religion. We have interfered with the natural order of things to the detriment of all...
Thank you for this. While I like money, it's just not my main motivator and I've also had that disconnect when I'm at entrepreneurial conferences. I like starting things and I have an interest in systems and I like helping people and finding better solutions. And while I admire other entrepreneurs who seek growth and more profit and those things sound nice, they're just not what lights a fire under me. I think I'm really looking for freedom to express and explore.
That doctor/account story is really deep. Really good food for thought, again.
We all start things for different reasons. Some experience are more transferable than others. Wisdom we call it. Sometimes it is about doing, and be on the right time. Our work it to distill our own way not from analogy or other experience. But finding our own path. :)
Hi Derek,
I'm currently in San Diego at a three-day Influencer seminar ran by Brendan Burchard.
Your post struck a chord, because Brendan is teaching us the importance of setting financial goals for our business. The practice seems not only sensible, but mandatory, in my minds eye. However, like you, I think of my work as at art, and would prefer to focus on creation (providing value), but I wonder if this is stifling by ability to grow? Is this an issue because money is an issue? Can you remember a time when money was an issue for you, and whether the need to make money every impinged on your art, or if you had the thoughts, and how you dealt with them?
Lee x
You should check out the conversations that happen on the podcast "future fossils". If you like how they go in topic and depth, it would be amazing to have an episode with you on it just sayin
http://shows.pippa.io/futurefossils/episodes/67
I think I remember this being a good one
That's a sound and healthy perspective, Derek. I personally would add, "Don't confuse creation with the Creator".
Scientists love to skip what journalists treasure; the how, why, when, and where of things, which should be step one in true science. Step two involves all the other variations, including evolution. To me, it's the equivalent of knowing how to play with Legos, but not even able to manufacture one Lego, therefore, Legos must have evolved from the ocean. But that's wrong, because Legos has a designer. And man or any other mammal could not have evolved from the ocean or ooze because newborn babies cannot survive on their own. Man has a Designer.
You wrote, "You can’t assume the reasons why people are doing what they do.", which is 100 percent right. In the same vein, I don't assume the reason why God is doing something has no apparent rhyme or reason. When I do that, I lose the correct perspective.
Later!
I just wrote this down on my stack of "note cards" for reminders to myself. It's a great little cue to help me figure out what matters most to me. I'm going to say to myself when deciding things - "All I really want to do is: _____________". Then ask for it!
Thanks.
And as you mentioned being open to doing interviews - can I come to Oxford and do a podcast episode with you for my YouTube? (youtube.com/keshavbx). I really don't care about your business advice/want anything from it, other than just more conversations about the stuff you post about.
Recently been thinking a lot about the importance of letting go of my "story".
Let me know!
Thanks!
I started writing songs because I loved playing guitar and got tired of playing other peoples stuff. I had little hope of making money off it. When I became a born again Christian, I felt led to write Christian song to express my feelings for God and salvation. I never really expected to make any real money from them, but I felt I wanted to get them heard and hopefully lead others to Christ. I started placing songs with CCLI hoping some churches would use them, but with millions of songs being registered with CCLI by big name artist and writers, I figured my chances of being heard were slim, but to my surprise some churches started using them and I am actually making a few dollars. I don't expect or want to get rich from it but it would be nice to touch some people to bring them to salvation.
My first time I've been aware of you and One of my Favorite Podcast ever was when you were at the Tim Ferriss Podcast. It's relaxed but structured, Entertaining yet Educational and feels like two bros reconnecting again after a long time. Hope to hear your Insights again real soon Derek.
The only thought I have on this topic is, I think we're on the same page. I just wanted people to hear my music. The money part wasn't that important to me.
I don't know, at this point , where I am at, in reading your "stuff" , because it's like trying to enjoy what your eating ,while thinking about sex ?
Well, maybe not that...but, you get what I'm saying . How did this notion, get into my head ? I think , I'm confused , by too much information ! Okay ! That's too simple of an answer , I know...I said I was confused !
Bye for now, I really,really ,did enjoy my time reading your very helpful , very informative , very insightful, very challenging and USEFUL INFORMATION !
(So you will get my point, I hadn't prepared myself , to spend this morning on the computer, reading your comments.......in fact , I was prepared to quickly read your latest email, and then go on with my dog-killing, WRONG ! I love dogs !
Wow I love how direct you are
I’ve never been good at boundaries
I will make sure the conversation is not about business
This is the third podcast of yours I'm listening, and I really, really, REALLY like what you have shared so far, including your minimalist approach. I look forward to learning more from you and about you.
Thank you! — Derek