Get personal
Before I got into the music industry, I had an idea of what it would look like: Some powerful manager or agent calling me into his office to discuss the business of my music.
Then I moved to New York City and became friends with cool people who also did things in music. Sometimes these people were agents or managers, but that was secondary. Mostly we were just friends.
Sometimes I’d send them clients. Sometimes they’d hook me up with opportunities. But really we were just friends, talking about our love lives or ideas, hanging out and having fun.
It was a long time before I realized that I was already in the industry — that this is how things are done. People send business to people they like. It’s all more personal than I had expected.
One of my best friends in the world is also my lawyer. He’s one of the top music lawyers in the world, but mostly he’s my friend. We talk about cycling, his kids, and music. And sometimes we stop to discuss a recent contract.
The initial contact usually happens for professional reasons. Like when I was looking for a lawyer, and someone introduced me to this guy.
When I hear music I love, I contact the musician, and say let’s meet. Within minutes we’re talking about her dogs, microphones, Japan, and whatever. Then, when someone asks me to recommend some music, guess who comes to mind first?
Point is: As you’re out there in the music business, get personal.
Don’t always be selling yourself. That keeps people at a distance from you, because it shows you’re not friends.
Even if it starts professional, get personal as soon as possible. Be a friend. That’s how things are done.
i must say that i appreciate you ability to genuinely be friends with so many people
Tienes razón, en mi propio círculo de amistades conozco a alguien así, todo un vendedor, creo que de esa manera tan intrusiva haces que las personas desconfíen de ti en vez de ganar confianza y por ende ventas, porque se figuran que solo te consideran un cliente potencial no su amigo.
Great advice, and one that you seem to follow still today.
As a recovering nerd, of course I like business talk, serious talk, in depth talk and academic talk.
But as most people are not nerds, I have learned to do small talk for their sake. Partly because it's a social lubricant, and partly because it is so important to them.
If I set my intention to give them the nice small talk they want, then my talk will happen just fine, and I will feel good from helping them while observing them having the talk they want, light and funny.
I say this to help any fellow nerds out there in blog land.
Oddly we used to chat and nerd about about tech stuff...
Absolutely great insight Derek as always!!!:-0~
Great stuff!
Thank you.
Let us know when the book is out
All the best!
Yes!
(that's my first thought)
Like you, I'd prefer to make friends
(versus "business associates")
Friends are funner.
We can be real with friends.
Really real.
Then I prefer to spend time with friends.
More potlucks, more parties... fewer networking meetings.
Then I like to mix in everyone getting more prosperous.
Making our dreams come true.
Helping others do the same.
Together.
As friends.
I think I've just articulated my business model.
Enjoying how you do this, Derek, and how you express it, too!
You are so Right! Lets all do the right thing. Be a friend first. Thank you so much for being mine 😋Lovelovelove
Friendship is that one step closer. Revealing ourselves.
Aw love it. So true too. What a world it’d be if people quit “keeping it professional” & started to abide MORE by this way of relating, as a real human to the next. Kudos, Derek, as always.
Hey Derek,
This one hit me right in the gut.
It's taken me many years to realize that what you are talking about is ultimately the most important aspect of being successful in the music business. Developing friendships and relationships with people.
It's actually critical to being successful in many other industries as well.
This has become the greatest challenge in my life.
You could write an entire book on this topic alone.
"Can't Do It Alone." Something like that.
Love this. Wonder if there is a way to cultivate that more. As in "cultivating being a friend" ..sounds a bit obvious ..could be a separate article. I guess and some could benefit..
I love this story though. I had a similar experience with my manager the other day and it just feels "more authentic and right" to be a true friend before anything else.
Good one
Sometimes these people just don’t want friendship. They think the overture you are making is for business and business only.
I had an idea of it would look like: Insert
"what" before it
Good follow up to the Pedestal
Great advice, Derek! Be a friend. Get personal.
Get personal, simple but something we forget when we are in business mode. People like people who are like themselves. thanks
Interesting. However, as you say, the friendship or bond, initially happens in a
professional capacity and that depends upon you having a status which would
lead them to strike up a contact with you or. indeed, you with them.
There is the underlying mutual business interest which will be augmented by
the friendly nature of the dealings, As you imply, you deal more with people you
get on with and not just in a business role. Not necessarily what you know but
who...
I believe so strongly in this philosophy. Bring yourSELF to the party or meeting, not your agenda. This ties in beautifully with your “pedestal” story and reminds me how friendly and accessible you were when we first met (on the phone). It was a music business interaction but the lasting impression was that I had just spoken to a “friend”. Your success and large following, I believe, has a lot to do with this philosophy. Many can learn from this.
Connecting on a different, and more trustable level.
Always treat people as you would like to be treated. Being nice does not cost you any more than being mean and may pay off down the road.
I agree with Ta'fxkz's comment. You are very personable and sometimes I forget this in the line of work I am in(Education). I find most people react better to the Hamlet assignment if we can talk about how this relates to the real world and with human beings with real emotions. When we can talk together and not 'at' each other then a real dialogue can happen.
I would agree with this on the whole, but the only caveat would be to define the line where friendship ends and a business relationship begins. I have a ton (hundreds, maybe thousands) of "friends" in the music industry, but if I did what I do for paying clients for every one of those friends, I would never have time to make a living and run a successful business. In terms of how I find or develop clients, it's 100% relationship based. If I had started my company with a pure "capitalist" mindset, and every client/artist was a number, it would have failed in the first year. The reason we are still in business is a constant stream of artists and labels who are "friends", and a continued focus on growing that circle and surrounding ourselves and our company with good folks who appreciate what we do. Thanks for your words Derek! Great Stuff here!
I sincerely appreciate this article. Thank you!
So true, be yourself and everything else falls into place.
I dig this, so hard. I have found in my relatively short life, that all of the people that I want to be around, are the people that show me that they care about ME. They talk to me about things I'm interested in, and have real genuine conversations. They're the people that talk to you like you'd always been friends, not because you have always been friends, but because they value you as a person enough to treat you like they want to be your friend.
Great!
How do you cope with the blurring line between business and this personal relationship. I find that the hardest part, I tend to personalize any business relationship, but isn't is easier sometimes to just do business and work together. If you end a business relationship, how does that work? I would like to get more tools when things get rough.
Love it Derek.
Agree. I get peoples bottom line but if it is too "all business" that is a red flag for me. My first choices are always people I love to hang with, and people I don't have to explain the music too. We get the music because we get each other.
I Remember! Thank you so much! Shortly after, I learned I had cancer, which slowed things down considerably. However, his advice was correct, and much appreciated!
Yes. Something I've done for years. Excellent
I think I'm going to enjoy this book, I hope you get to do an audio book version too.
I like the new direction, this post in particular.
In the graphic, the woman looks a bit like he she's yelling...but that's OK between friends, lol.
I always felt this to be wrong for me thinking that i would come across as being too friendly and wanting?
Very true, make friends...
Derek,
Tandem off that last article and I wrote a lot that relates to that as well. It's interesting, since I've also had a long business / corporate career. And while, I did make some friends - I think it is a stronger bond outside of business firms and in the artist and creative world. I wouldn't say it's a hard line and arguably, I met and made more friends outside of my firm that I got a chance to meet, work with and made some long lasting friendships. I would also say, now living in rural - that smaller businesses and folks who are running their own businesses and sometimes it's just them... all comes down to being friends and having good relationships. Everyone is in business to make some money, have a sense of accomplishment, support their families... but in the end, people need people and friendships and relationships that help support them through their lives. There's a line there and to quote 'Jeff Beck', he's not a bad man, he's just ambitious! That's both sides of the coin that you point out - there is the business and work to get where you want to go, but there are people friendships, experiences along the way that should be made, enjoyed and you just never know when one of those will help shape your life and suddenly help you get to where you want to be! In today's day in age especially, such great points you are making to remind people of the important aspects of getting where they want to be and living there lives and making those relationships along the way.
As always; you’re on point Derek.
Hey Derek,
I love those drawings! Are those yours? I am wondering if you are thinking of a section in your book on developing character or other interests as a musician. I know some musicians who are solely focused, which is great, but aren't well rounded people who can talk about a lot of other things. It seems like you have a handle on your spiritual life, physicality, emotional stability. Maybe I'm wrong. Hehe! But I would love to see you address this issue. Of course I got some of this from your Tim Ferris interviews. I think musicians could benefit from seeing how a balanced life is a key part of being satisfied in general, and how it can add to their "likability" for lack of a better word at the moment.
Peace,
Tamara
All good and well - but what if you are a severe introvert and Highly Sensitive Person (HSP)? What if you struggle making any friends let alone in the industry? What if you don't care about the industry or bands or people or gigs and prefer working alone? What if money isn't even an interest? What if engaging anything to do with society is confronting - let alone friends and industry people?
I digress - but you get my point.
You feel like an extrovert and are very charismatic - perfect for schmoozing - I don't think I have ever (successfully) schmoozed in my whole life.
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More feedback:
On slow second thought, it occurs to me that if your opening sentence had quotes around "into the music industry" then in paragraph four, the word"it" would be easier to grasp.
Or maybe my thoughts are tooo slow, because I'm sure I read the piece fine the first time.
A thought:
Maybe you could do a piece on "schmoozing," the concern of #43, Japetus, where you mention that book you and I like, Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. For that topic you could have fun asking people you know.
Derek, as I always I enjoy your writing. Just another perspective to consider:
I am now in my 40's. I still want to improve and progress in my career. But at this time in my life, I have great friends, a great family, aging parents, and many close ties. I am not actively looking to get personal with others, and I wonder if those I am looking to do buisness with, are in the same boat.
I love to work with people who I think are honest, hard working, and caring. I agree with the basic premise that 'People do business with people they like'. But spending time to get personal with people because they may do more business with you seems selfish and counter to what I think you are about. In your case, I think you became friends with those people because you liked those people, and at that time in your life, there was room and time to build those relationships...
Thanks for sharing your writing.
I agree - but it also brings up a challenge for me: Can you write something about doing business with friends? I love working with friends but sometimes it feels a little "dirty" exchanging money with them after we work with/for each other.
Awesome advice Derek. I wish I had this insight years ago.
This is freakin awsome advice. Here's what I love about it: the value of people. I'm off to read some more. Thanks Derek!
This is very valuable advice for me, thanks! I'm not sure if you've felt this way, but I often find it hard to switch gears when i'm talking professional stuff and having to switch to personal stuff. Wonder if you have any tips for that?