If I had a record label, would you be signed to it?

How about signing bands and artists whose strengths outshone their weaknesses? We are defined by our flaws and without them we lose our humanity. Unfortunately I think that using your own model, you wouldn't end up with the creative and lucrative label that you wanted, and would in fact end up with the very thing you are trying to avoid - blandness.

I think you should simply gravitate towards the music that gets you stoked, and make the business decision later. I get the feeling that this post is the distributor in you talking, and not the A&R development team or manager.

I'm not sure if I'd want to hear any of the songs of someone who fitted your current criteria. Here's to being flawed, even fatally, in the hope that something unique will come from it. Because after all, if you do have something truly unique (which is one of your points) then to be honest a lot of the other points seem less important.

Your 'label' doesn't sound particularly nurturing and sounds to me that by the time you'd be ready to commit to signing a particular artist they would already have been snapped up by someone else. Another label would have signed them if they even hit a few of your points, and worked on the rest over time.

Don't forget, a lot of the things on your list an artist is actually looking for help with, to fill in the gaps, to understand the arena they're going in. It's your expertise which can help them grow and learn how to do the other stuff that they're looking for. Some bands have the look and not the music, others the music but not the look, some bands market themselves brilliantly but need help with the songs etc etc - nobody's perfect, there's always room for improvement.

And with a label's help, a band or artist can learn, grow and improve. Learn, grow, improve. Judging from your list it appears you don't want to put any work in, which is what we've all been moaning about the majors for for years. You would probably have to wait for a band to be signed to a small label who do all this nurturing over two years, and then lure them with money away from the people who helped them develop. Like the majors have been doing for ages - to cash in on a sure bet, somone somewhere is going to have put the work in first.

So personally I'd settle for great music, and just figure out if I could work with these people or not. I think you've answered your own question when you couldn't think of any artists who fitted your criteria - anyone who fitted all the criteria wouldn't sign to your label anyway - because they'd already be extraordinarily successful in their own terms. What could you possibly offer an artist who ticks all your boxes?

Things I would add...

1. Learning to play your main instrument to an ability that's beyond good.

2. Write what is striking to you personally. Then figure out how to make it something others will find striking.

3. Learn to write, then learn to re-write. Well written songs can withstand genres and stereotypes.

4. Don't be afraid to try different instruments in a song.

5. Can't play something correctly - Hire someone who can.

6. Are the songs your writing causing you to get goosebumps? They should.

7. Is your performing ability enough to give people goosebumps? It should.

8. Be so compelling that hit songwriters want to write with you.

9. Check the attitude at the door. Nothing prevents you from getting work faster than being a dick or blowing off a gig.

10. Don't let a relationship dictate your actions.

As a musician I would naturally take quite a few things out of this list because there is enough emirpical evidence out there that musicians have got signed to labels without fully satisfying this list. E.g live shows for one. Joe Satriani's is an extremely rated and talented guitarist but his live shows are boring, yet I would still be more than willing to go to his shows...Things like songwriting and vocals are also a bit abstract and what one like can also be what someone else hates. Probably a better way of putting that one is that artists should be willing to flexible enough to change and adapt their songs when it comes to working with producers and professionals of the industry.

On the other hand there are some things I would add to the list, one of them being that the musician has to have a clear understanding of the music business and have well defined PLANS and measurable targets that show the band's uncompromising desire for success. The record label is then an ally of the band in helping them achieve their goals.

And this list is exactly why I've let my label stagnate and am focusing on production and songwriting instead.

Investing your own time and money in someone else's dream is not a great business plan. I wish I'd read your post about 5 years ago!

All of the above are valid points, but susceptible to certain criticsms:

1. The creative issues are a matter of personal taste, aren't they? How can you tell when a vocal performance is "head-turning/striking" and when it's just over-the-top and annoying? Same goes for everything - there is no clear-cut formula, except "I love/hate/don't care about it." Being an artist myself, I've a long time ago decided that the stuff I write and do has to please me. If it does, there's always going to be a group of people who will like it as well. (Plus a group that will hate it, of course. ;) )

2. A surprising number of mega-huge, long-time artists have at least had spells of a bad working attitude, so here's something to consider: with the bad comes the good. The destructive habits of rock stars make working with them a pain, but go down real well with the music-buying public. For many people, a rock star provides a safe outlet for all the stuff they'd like to do, but would never dare. That's why artist biographies sell so well - especially those with a lot of naughty bits. Sunday-school choir boys don't sell at all well though, so it's really a case of controlling the chaos the best you can, non?

What I think the most important though are the points about having done it for years and still working at it, plus the ability to work to a budget and less-than-perfect conditions. Too many musicians today are thrown in the big time too early and never really learn to go it on their own. As a result, without large amounts of money pumped in, they're helpless. There are others, who - having had big investments made in them - decide that this isn't really what they want in life (Joss Stone comes to mind here).

Reading the list, I know I would not be signed to your company, for at least one reason (it comes in paper and has a filter attached ;) ), possibly more. On the other hand, I'm not sure if I'd want to, given as part of my band's appeal comes from breaking the rules (though in a controlled way).

It's a good post, all the same. Quite a few young bands I know could take good heed of this advice. It's academic, since you aren't starting a label, but definitely something to ponder on. :)

Ah, but Derek, I think you're getting caught up in the nitty gritty details of what successful acts make themselves to be eventually. I say this with absolutely no disrespect, but you're sounding a bit like a major label A&R person.

Basically, your criteria indicates that you are only willing to make very conservative choices -- pick a proven and already-successful talent. One you can for sure bet on profitability. An act that does all the maturing before they get to you.

Because a label is a business, I fundamentally don't disagree with you on many of your criteria. But I think you may be able to whittle down that list to its essence, in return allowing yourself to be open to find talents that may not be as realized as your list, but give you every reason to believe that they will be soon.

I think it boils down to two qualities: passion and aptitude.

"artist has done this for a few years and still believes that this is their real calling in life, regardless of external rewards (or total lack of)"

This is a good indication of their passion/dedication to their art. You do have to see them over some time to ensure that this is a life-long pursuit without exterior motives for worldly rewards. Creating art should be a reward in itself, and the person/people pursuing it should see that and still love it enough to spend their lives doing it.

I once heard a story that of a film director. In order to make his film, he maxed out all credit cards, mortgaged his own house AND his grandmother's house. The point is that he believed so much in his story that he was willing to risk not just everything he owned but his family, too. (and he did become successful) It's not something that can be recommended, but it's an example of what an artist will do when he/she passionately believe in his/her/their art.

The second piece is about their ability to learn and grow:

"every song has been absolutely improved repeatedly - every note/syllable crafted to be the best it can be"

And the same should apply to their performance.

Writing and performing are both skills. Skills can be learned. (especially where there is passion) Sure, you can't manufacture Freddie Mercury out of every man, but if a singer is both die-hard passionate and has a fertile mind that can absorb and grow rapidly, then he/she is bound find his/her own style, the way to make their singing work with the songs they write and make something compelling.

An act that has both passion and aptitude can and will develop every other qualities needed for success: great material, striking performance, good work ethic, and effective image/presentation.

I suppose I may be talking more about incubation than making an immediately profitable business venture -- but just as raising kids can be deeply rewarding experience (but you can't control them) I think there can be a great partnership between label/management and artists.

All that said, Derek, I think if you see an act that you MUST sign, I think your heart will know first, before your head. They may not have everything on your list. But you'll be so super excited about them, that the thought of working with them will probably keep you awake at night and make you not taste what you're eating.

There's no need to over-analyze.

Not even Garth Brooks or Dave Grohl could meet that list.. And Christ was a carpenter so he's out. Oh and that (in-store appearances) thing.

I agree with Daniel, "Investing your own time and money in someone else’s dream is not a great business plan."

As a musician I would hope to aspire to this list. If I were a label I don't think I could sign myself just yet.

Howdy from Times Square NYC Derek,

Greetings from the big apple on one of the first beautiful summery days..starting a Record Label up? These days, sure I'd sign with you!

I started my own label Ham-Berger-Friz Records and it's doing well but it's a lot of work to do everything including being the artist/bandleader/composer on the label so I'd be in to relinquishing some points if I had somebody I could trust like Derek Sivers to take care of the label biz. Please keep me in the loop about this, sounds highly-interesting to me!

All the best,

Jon

*Member AFM Local 802, Local 6 / ASCAP Publisher

**Host of daily morning radio show HammondCast on KYOURADIO

I think this is a good list if I read it as an artist looking to attract investors/distribution/or a label.

From the label perspective, this might be a good checklist for a CEO or president to have. However, I would think it could be balanced by having an A&R who's a little more visionary and willing to shape and mold. Then if the A&R comes across an act they really believe in, their passion might sell the CEO in spite of the missing criteria.

I think in the beginning of Mr. Mojo Risin's career he probably matched most of the criteria on your list, but the more sucessful he became the more of a fuck up he became too. Kind of like "Eric Von Stroheim, the man you love to hate!" I admire how he challeged authority and "the man." He certainly always kept things interesting... a pure artist in every sense of the word.

In some ways, CD Baby is a label in it's own right. I love it and have released three cd's through CD Baby since 2002 and intend to release many more (BTW, I love your digital distribution set-up). Just like life you get out of it what you put into it. "In the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make!" It's a D.I.Y. world these days. Peace.

http://www.myspace.com/richsheldon

Great, so, then, I'll be the first artist you sign.

Sweet.

Just let me know when you finally decide to start a label.

You won't even have to fly me out to the west coast to sign me, FedEx the contract, that'll be fine.

Another thing to consider is that some bands are ready to go big time NOW, but don't know how to do all that business stuff. By the time they learn how to do all those things you mention, their time may well be over and you have both lost out.

Some of the greatest things happen when people with different skill sets come about and everyone can just concentrate on what they're good at.

@ Ronnie... yeah, and you added a nice one, as well :

"If I were a label I don’t think I could sign myself just yet."

More artists should think like that. It's too easy to proclaim you're the Next Big Thing when it's someone else's money on the line.

Record Labels as Venture Capital, that's where my head is at with this issue lately... and these days, as Derek has discussed here previously, artists are able to do a ton on their own, without a traditional record label investing in their dream.

If you had a label, I would definitely want to be signed to it!

I guess you would have passed up Bob Dylan and Nirvana... :)

It seems you missed the number one point when it comes to mass media potential, the one that trumps all of your requirements - the story. I'll take an artist with a good story and less than perfect, but passionate performances (Janis Joplin, Hendrix, etc) over an anally revisionist craftsman any day.

Another couple of things to add...

Believe in your ability and music so much that you will sacrifice all your worldly goods for it.

Do you have a business plan? Remember this is a business. I've personally got 3. One simple (5 pages), one mid-level (17 pages) and one all encompassing (48 pages).

If you're not willing to do that, then why should someone else?

The music is and will ALWAYS be THE most important thing. If you don't connect with people through the music...it doesn't matter.

The great thing about, say, the 70's was the artists were more able to focus on their end of the bargain, the music. And that's why the music was better (generally WAY better) in the 60's and 70's than it is now.

Now, plenty of artists got screwed business-wise in those times, but plenty didn't.

I doubt there are very many GREAT artists who are great at all the other stuff. If we were, we wouldn't care at all about labels.

As it is, with all the DIY stuff that's been going on, artists still find it sexy (and usually helpful) to be on a label (or at least signed with a brilliant manager).

Managers are the new labels...

Working with artists IS a huge pain in the butt. That's why they are artists.

My criteria?

There is none. If I see the light shining from them, then I'll give them a shot.

That's my job - to assist them in all those areas in which they have not developed.

The only things you've left off the list is what personal satisfaction you would receive by investing (your own success criteria). You've stated your criteria for those who you would sign, but you mention nothing about what it means to you or your business. Is it money, philanthropy, vanity, innovation, radio airplay, building a brand, getting quoted...? What do your signing criteria supposedly add up to?

I personally think your signing criteria are open to interpretation, but once the success metrics are established, the signing criteria interpretation will be narrowed.

You realize, Derek, that if you aren't practicing these stringent standards in your own life, so to speak, that run the risk of being a hippocrite?

I cringe at your list: reminds me why i probably don't want to be in the music 'business' but can indulge in the 'art' of the art to my heart's desire...

I think every indie label signs artists they personally love. So really, at the end of the day, it comes down to being passionate about any artist you sign but they also have to want to become successful and work harder than you, no matter what.

I've learned this lesson the hard way - signing acts I loved but ultimately ones that couldn't go the distance because I wanted them to be successful more than they wanted to be successful. Ah, live and learn.

I think anyone that starts a label these days has to just sign music they love and artists that are working non-stop to promote their music.

That's the formula for success - everything else is subjective.

Jennifer Yeko

True Talent Management

http://www.truetalentmgmt.com

What is wrong with wanting an artist who has their act together, is not self centered and spoiled, Has a realistic grasp of where the music industry is right now, and is in it for the music?

The fact that some people are pooh poohing this is what I find disconcerting about some of the responses in this thread.

I don't understand comments like "Derek, you sound like the major labels now".

Maybe it’s how I interpret Derek’s list, but I see the priorities of his (make believe) label to be about originality, and artistic discipline. I don’t see that as the priorities of the major labels.

What I see coming out of the major labels is cookie cutter generic music/artists that look good, sound good, but whose music is mostly unmemorable.

At the very least, this list makes a very good guideline that I think any artist or band should aspire to.

I would like to think that I am working hard to meet the criteria that that Derek has set in this post.

One other thing I would like to add:

On the opposite side of my last post.

A while back I went to see a friends "new" band play their first gig. Prior to this gig I had only heard their demos. I was not terribly impressed with the demos.

But when I saw them live, I was blown away. There was a chemistry to them and they had that undefinable "it" factor that people always talk about.

I went to a few more of their gigs just to be sure, and each one only re-enforced my opinion about them. I remember telling my friend that if I wasn't so busy handling my own business as a musician and artist, I would offer to manage them (I was that knocked out by them). I was definitely a fan though.

What finally happened to them?

Nothing.

The Lead guitarist and Lead singer who where the centerpiece of the groups onstage chemistry where always at odds with each other and fought a lot.

The lead singer's unwillingness to want to protect her voice and unwillingness to greet fans that came to see them also hurt them.

The band's Rhythm guitarist (my friend) was the level headed one and the peace maker for everyone in the band. He said that it became harder and harder to settle their differences. Add to the fact that the lead guitarist had a history of never finishing anything he started and sure enough he quit first over creative differences.

They tried to go on with a different lead guitarist, but it wasn't the same. The chemistry, or "it" factor was gone. Eventually they just faded out.

Who knows, had they existed in the 70's things might have worked out differently for them. Maybe a label would have discovered them, the lead guitarist (not wanting to mess with the meal ticket) would have stayed. Someone at the label would have baby-sat them through what would have probably been some very destructive trials, and through it all maybe they would have created astounding music.

But this is not the 70's anymore and I don't think this works anymore.

When the Beatles went to play in the US for the first time, an interviewer asked John Lennon if they were going to do the same act as they had been doing in England. Lennon answered: "We don't have an act, we just do what we do."

What about adding this to the 'show' and 'perfect band'...

As usual, the list you create leaves out the music that I have been creating and performing since 1982. My original jazz group Cat's A Bear has been in existence for 26 years, so I guess we pass the longevity test. We have kept the group together during times when we have no gigs, and times when we are all busy with everything else. You will NOT find a more dedicated group of musicians.

However, the "vocal performance" is not a part of our sound (which immediately puts us off of any real serious label interest in these days and times), and the "arrangements" are often the result of true jazz musicians playing spontaneously.

We have created a strong following over many years despite being at the edge of everyone's expectations of music by promoting ourselves, creating kick-ass live shows, and producing our own music since no-one else will.

Derek offered the first real help with CD Baby, so that we could get our product over to the world.

However, jazz is now less than 2 percent of the world market share - which means that labels don't give a crap about it.

Thus - once again we would be out of the picture if we did not do it ourselves, and because of the music that we play, we can never make your list.

Of course, we choose it ourselves, so we get what we get. However, the world is deprived of a lot of alternative music because the profit margin is not "Jamiacan vacation ready". If you want dedicated, non-greedy, professional musicians who create something truly unique, Cat's A Bear is your band. If you want lots of profits from record sales in a superfical market, then you will obviously look elsewhere.

Peace out to all musicians, and a special nod to those performing instrumental jazz, the poor child in the room.

peace - f

WHAT I WOULd ADD IS ME A GOSpel RAPER, INDustry HERO MINistry MATerial . MUSic IS CHANGIng BACK TO ITS CORE WHIch IS GOD WHO IS LOVE , HELp , A GUIde , AND PATIents GO TO MYSPace. COM/ COGTHATHRILLR. WHEn YOU SUPport GOOd YOU SHAll HAVE GOOD SUPport YOU.

Being visually arresting with a defined, unique recgnisable style - music is primarily promoted through visual mediums these days

Nice one Derek, for all of it - the spiritual and the musical, the ideas and the empowerment. Please don't fall out of the sky, unless you feel you must..

I agree with most of what people have written here, even some of the opposing views, and especially Julian Moore at the top of this thread re. your 'label' - which I also agree you already have in CD Baby... and it's criteria for acceptance are the total opposite of what you have proposed ! Which means I, who fulfill very few of the 'requirements' you mooted, though aspiring to many of them, can be a part of it. For which, thank you.

At the risk of being impertinent, do you yourself have no addictions ? if so I am envious, and perhaps sorry for you, in equal measure ..

For my own part, I think Muse is all that matters.

I meant this to be a really short post, sorry..

Good luck y'all.

Mike

If an artist possessed all the qualities mentioned by Derek and all the other folks on this list, why would they NEED a record label? What would a record label truly offer them? I think it would be more profitable for an artist to ask themselves what qualities a record label needs to possess before they would even talk to them, and what they really expect to get out of that partnership. If an artist can't answer that, they should stay away.

I'm not convinced that signing to a record label is the holy grail that most people ought to be seeking after. People who are record-label material (who meet many of the requirements mentioned above) tend to get approached by labels, not the other way around. And again, when that happens, the artist should ask themselves "what are YOU going to do for me?"

Thanks, all!

And here I thought CD Baby WAS MY Label....

cdbaby.com/calanbyrd\

Hi Derek,

Many years ago my grandfather had a trucking business collecting those old milk cans. He had about 4 trucks and employed all his sons. One day he saw a new stainless steel milk truck go by him on the highway. He immediately knew he was seeing the future of milk collecting and that his future was going to face great upheaval. That's what has happened to the music business as you well know. Great upheaval and confusion. The majors are looking at that new milk truck equivalent and nervously pondering their future in the music business. Many musicians are basically lost. With the entire music industry in some sort of dark matter transition there is little direction for most. It's kind of like the Titanic disaster when it was every man for himself.

It's basically a mess Derek! However...on the bright side, I see you as a glimmer of hope. You have vision. You have stamina and a genuine love for music! The music industry needs new leadership. People who have honesty and integrity like you, a proven track record of success. Someone who has the guts to make a difference. A word of caution though...it wouldn't be easy and it would be an ocean fraught with dangers. The timid need not apply!

Well, a "label" presupposes one entity owning the interests of another. In the digital age more and more artists are becoming free agents. They control their own fate. They are free to fail or succeed by their own wits and talents. So while there are more mediocre bands and artists out there than ever before, each has a historically unprecedented opportunity to be heard. Labels are anachronistic, and there no longer is any reason to subjugate oneself to them. All it takes is courage, perseverance, luck and a bit of talent.

When you use a formula to pick "the next big thing" don't be surprised if all you get is "paint by numbers artist"!

Labels make safe picks, which means safe music, we've lost the soul and passion of real artist...Being a "Baby Boomer", I'm part of the largest music buying consumer group,and the most over looked consumer... the "Teen Music" catagory was created by my generation! Because of "Idol" mentality we are told ALL artist must be under 25, be attractive, sing tenor...ect..., So long Bob Dylan, so long Joe Crocker, so Long Mama Cass, so long Johnny Cash,Willie Nelson,Brian Wilson,The Clash,Tom Waits...and just about every real artist you can name!

I don't think the state of the music industry is based on "poor economy"...I think it's based on poor selection of non formula artist! The "Baby Boomer" has 3 primary choices in buying music in a store these days...#1. Country music that's been given a pop make over (Which is where a lot of us have resisted but turned), #2.Teen/dance/hip-hop/club (Want to feel creepy, be 40 and buy the latest Britney or Lil' Wayne CD!) or #3. Oldies (including reunions of Older artist) which we are starved for, just look at the sales of the latest Eagles CD, Any Beatles collection,Elvis' #1's, the Beach Boys "Sounds of Summer" collection(-triple paltnium) or the last Fleetwood Mac reunion...the problem is the labels never looked or promoted any one to "fill the shoes" of these artist in the late 70's....and after disco and the joke that is metal (Spinal Tap killed every serious thought of metal music since it's release).....The biggest feed back I get from people at our shows is "Why don't the Record Companies put out this kind of music?...Music that I can listen too!" (People between 30 and 50).

I have to disagree with two things Jody Whiteside listed...(#1)about being "beyond good on their main instrument" , it has been my experience that really great instrument players are weaker in other areas, such as songwriting....they spend so much time learning new riffs or they fall short on other parts of making an overall sound...Bob Dylan could hardly play 3 chords when he recorded his first songs...heart should always come first!

and (#8) "be so compelling that other songwriters will want to work with you"....Let's face it, if your at that point, Labels are knocking at your door! I've had the chance to work with and perform with a few "name" players, and picked up some advice from a few...which I'll add on here...

(1). "You play well enough and sing well enough, don't wait for someone else to record your songs, do it youself...because until you do it, no one else will!"...John Thomas Griffin of "Cowboy Mouth" told me this after jammin' with me on one of my songs, which lead to me recording my first demo.

(2). "Don't play music because you want a hit or a record deal...play music because you love music and want to make a living at it! If you can make a living playing music, than isn't that the real dream?...You can have a hit and a year later be back looking for a job....if you work at making music your job,than you get the dream, with or with out the hit or the label!".....Told to me by my good friend Jim Ford (manager/agent) who has worked with "The dB's,REM,Peter Holsapple, Richard Hell and a ton of other groups".

Following that advice has gotten me this far....if I never get a hit or a record deal, I'm making "My Music"....and living out my musicial dreams, recording a tribute I wrote for Beach Boys drummer Dennis Wilson, I was invited to the 2005 "historic landmark dedication" of the band, and a VIP guest of the family...my latest CD (self produced and distributed) includes a guest performance with original Beach Boy David Marks, and two members of the 60's group "The Rip Chords"....as well as getting to play my songs live with a great group of friends (my Band)!

I hope you all find the song that brings you home!

Jim Morrison. Precisely. One icon substantially undermines your template, Derek. Alas genius and self-destruction are often two sides of the same platinum record. The mere act of fishing with a template guarantees that you'll capture all the folks trying diligently to fit the prevailing template, which is to say the consummately un-original which is to say, the Last Big Thing. Tomorrow's genius lives outside the template of corporate 'imagination' although he will no doubt serve as the Poster Boy for the Next Big Template. We will suffer all his wannabes soon enough.

The only template to apply is the broken template. Nothing worth having is reducible to its constituent parts or ingredients.

norm ball

Dear Derek:

You would not sign me to your record label, and I wouldn's blame you one bit. A record label would be looking for artists who wand fame so bad that they will go anywhere and everywhere, do anything, and stick to that specific goal no matter what. There are some musicians, however, who would become very despondent if they became famous and rich doing something they truly hate, or something that is more related to Show Business than it is to Music. I'm speaking of music in strictly its aesthetic sense -- the drama that its notes, melodies, harmonies and rhythms create when people listen to it ; people who care absolutely nothing about "show," dress, looks, stage antics, lighting, image, etc.

There are musicians who are satisfied to make a decent living that enables them to marry, have children, buy a house, send their children to college, and store some funds away for their old age. This can be done, and such musicians can and do lead a very charmed and happy life -- putting family first, and using music and career as a way to enhance their family.

"Success" is not about money or fame. One is successful when one has succeeded in accomplishing one's intended goal. To become famous at something that one does not like, is not success, no matter how much fame or fortune one acquires from it. As a matter of fact, such empty success may even be what was behind some "artists" attempts at suicide, or drug abuse.

RCA used to lose money on its Classical music albums. They would use a portion of the revenues they derived from Pop music to fund their Classical music. They did this because it made them feel good, I was told. Not all record label owners have the same goals; some want to make a much money as possible, and others want to simply do very well -- and do something edifying, beautiful, beneficial.

There are so many jokes about Jazz musicians, all of which center around their lack of money. Jazz musicians are not failed Rock musicians. They love Jazz, and are happy to appeal to its relatively smaller (and more discriminating )audience. Why? Because the Jazz audience is largely made up of people who understand its aesthetic, and could care less about the players' "stage act."

The only thing that I might add is that those who choose to appeal to a relatively smaller market, such as Jazz players do, ought not to complain about the meagre funds that they derive. Actually, I have never heard them complain about money. Mostly, they are disappointed in the fact that more people do not understand, or care to learn, about the beauty of Jazz. But God sometimes gives only one gift to some individuals. Playing real music, such as Jazz and Classical music, is already an enormous gift.

In a way, it's like if you have your own label you want the people on it to live up to your own standards , which is hard because very rarely to you find someone that does. This is where you must decide if you want to do it for yourself or for other people.

I'm so happy you've finally decided to sign me, Derek! :) I'm everything you've described AND more!

You're really make'em think, buddy. As a former Nashville pavement-pounder of the early 1980s [Thank God I was a quick Learner] turned Independent label owner, I understand exactly where you're coming from.

I think the list is great.

The one issue I could see is this one:

"vocal performance is not just perfect but head-turning, striking"

That is perfect if the band/artists uses vocals.

However, many artists create music without any vocals, or at least without "lead vocals".

Naturally, I think I meet all of the requirements...I like to think I sound great, look great, perform great when given the opportunity,and I have worked very hard for many years with no plans of giving up, etc...All which you list above, except that a lot of my music has no vocals or only "background" choral-type vocals.

Take the entire Ambient genre for example, perhaps only a handful of the artists use any vocals at all, and even less have anything which could be called a "lead vocal".

Neoclassical is another genre where vocals are very rare.

Some acts even have full bands which rarely use vocals such as the psychedelic jazz/rock band Tortoise.

just kind of scanning through some of the response (S) and looking at the guidelines for determining who to sign, I cant think of any people that I consider great artists even have one of those qualities hahaha, eccentric unstable, self destructive, unpredictable, overly emotional, prone to drama, sometimes refuse to practice their respective instruments, showing up for photos looking like something the dogs drug up to the house. maybe the eccentric flavor is what draws us to the great artists. The best music I have listened to was improvised, raw and gritty the kind of music that flows from the heart and soul and just is, you cant explain why. Rare have been the times I have heard music like that, and usually some smokey bar somewhere in the absolute middle of nowhere on open mike night. Go figure,,, maybe music just can not be tamed and canned and made perfect and somewhere in that inperfectness is where real music and talent lives wild, free and untameable.

Hi Derek,

While in the process of applying for a doctoral degree, I took a break and checked my email to discover "If I had a record label, would you be signed to it?" Immediately, Steven Covey's The 8th Habit came to mind . . . . Consequently, I also read through your other bits of information/knowledge - definitions of "control" and discovered that you cited Covey's 7 Highly Effective Habits - you're a smart man that is always moving forward despite fears, anxiety - The 8th Habit addresses the importance of value-value driven leadership. The 8th Habit is to "Find Your Voice and Inspire Others to Find Theirs." You are doing that!

Back to the "To confidently invest in an artist, I'd want to see ". . . . you only have to look in your back yard at the veteran jazz artists that have spent a lifetime honing their craft, living, breathing, telling their life stories through the jazz medium without the use of props, big sound systems - jazz in its purest form . . . . I know and have played with many of these artists that have gone unrecognized, as a matter of fact; I'm currently working with a video producer that wants to tell the story of the many jazz musicians that have had to carve out a living, establishing themselves in other careers in order to sustain their real passion - the love of playing jazz music. At 50 years old and after 40 years of playing drums, I decided that no one was going to recruit me and take me on the road to success, so, I produced a Christmas jazz album that speaks for itself. The process of producing this album taught me some of life's greatest lessons: the importance of modeling trusworthiness and integrity, first seeking to understand by really listening to people, then communicating in a way so as to be understood. The Greeks had 3 words for this: Ethos, Pathos, and Logos.

Didn't read all of these but I whole-heartedly agree w/ Julian Moore's post. Right on.

"band members don’t need unreasonable amounts of money to perform (can perform profitably) "

I am unclear as to what the point is. Value is determined by what people are willing to pay. The music industry is no longer just "feast or famine" but has evolved to also include everything in between. I think artists should seek what is equitable.

I would like signing to your label!!!! ;)

I'm from the "Old School" .....back in the 60's and 70's......my era.......there was an explosion of music , from heavy psycodelic(sp) , Frigid Pink, to soft rock, Seals and Croft. All the music had one thing in common.....IT WAS ALL ORIGINAL. Every group had it's own distinct sound and image, immediatally identified by the fans. One more thing they all had in common.......substances that altered their normal thinking patterns. In my opinion.......to be creative, you have to extend yourself beyond your normal , everyday thinking patterns. Be it meditation, alcohol, or a banned substance. The sacrafice for the art has been exampled throughout history. Motzart, Poe, Van Gough, ......Hendrix, Morrison, Bon Scott.....and on and on.....

To be great, means doing things the "normal" person would never do. Including going to that place where you are your most " creative "

Hm... reading the above thoughts, Derek, mixed emotions and states of mind tried the texture of my already hurt self in this savage and oversaturated business, lol... My own experiences - through constant rejections and ignorance, has tought me that every musician/songwriter should learn as much about this trade just as much he or she would like to gain control over his/her talent and estate. GO INDEPENDENT!!! Learn the business and use all the new tools which are out there for us regarding production/promotion/marketing/sales...

Believe me, it works!

Derek, if you are serious about the list above I might have what you are looking for :) Beside that I also have a constantly growing market in Romania. Playing about 70-80 gigs/year and selling around 4000 units of each title it gives us a pretty business figure around the year. If you ar interested and have the ludicious thrill to help me in developing a basically virgin market, you are welcome to join me. We have a lot of talented youngsters with no business mean whatsoever. They need directions and lucrative models :)

Join me!

Best thoughts,

AG Weinberger - The Transylvanian Guitar Man

I tend to agree with Daniel in that the main question that Derek's article should bring to the forefront is "What IS a record label?" With more and more responsibility potentially in the hands of musicians, there are two major market actions that will/are happening: 1. traditional corporate labels will shrink, conglomerate, and eventualy fall by the wayside; making the way for indepenent beneficiaries to subsidize performers on a much smaller scale. Think of the d'Medici's of Florence (look it up). 2. As most musicians (keep in mind that I am speaking as one) are fairly irresponsible when it comes to balancing anything from checkbooks to their everyday diet, the glut of superfluously mediocre performers will plummet as the corporate focus on single-fed sales makes way for more album-based art, which again takes a more responsible performer to pull off. And yes, I realize that Guns N Roses's "Appetite for Destruction" is a great album made by a perpetually drunk/high/mentally unstable group of degenerates (at the time); there is always room for anomalies.

All of this makes it an exciting and scary time in the industry (depending on what side you are on). And although I realize that the downfall of the industry labels into a more grass-roots based art movement will mean much lower returns for musicians, I believe that the integrity of the artform will become vibrantly reenergized.

One more site I'd like to mention.......... cdbaby.com/cd/vinylrhino........our originals.

I have no band, I'm alone... therefore there is no place for me in your label...

But I have a couple of ideas - you should be looking for not just new arrangement but for completely new sounds, new instruments and new images.

Also if you completely rely on band/composer as a person (you mentioned a lot of behavioral things then you should have more acceptance of their musical experiments. I mean for example I love to work with partner and friend but I don't need anybody to tell me what must I do.

Amen and a little bit more: For some of us, making music is an avocation, not a calling. We may know we are too old and fat to ever become big stars, but we are delighted to have a good crowd at our local coffeehouse, and we love it when someone tells us, "Your song changed my life," or "My kids won't quit playing your CD." We may actually believe that it's all right to perform once a month and sing in the kitchen the rest of the time. We make music because music moves us and creating heals us, not because we expect to make money from it. For those of us in this category, CD Baby is a wonderful, wonderful service, one that allows us to make our songs available to anyone without demanding a huge investment, and allows us to travel without carrying a box of CDs in the trunk. Whatever you do, Derek, please don't abandon us part-timers.

I think its a good idea! Nothing should stop a man from going as far as he can go! Ofcourse, industry sounding music has completely run the business into the ground, but that makes the real music, or not so perfect sounding music stand out. Honestly, my music has been with cdbaby since it was created, and I will admit to my music not being as perfect as it could be, but as perfect as it could get for me at the time.

But as the months grow older, so does my talent, and people in positions like Derek Sivers, and etc. will open the door for someone in my position.

Maybe I wouldn't be considered for the label, because of quality, or lack of knowledge, but maybe I will be selected for style, or potential. Either way, Ill never stop trying to go as far as I could go!

i guess i'd make it...

Great articles Derek and some great thoughts here!

If I had a record label, I would only search for authentic artists.

I understand some comments of other people here but in some way I

disagree with terms about playing skills, vocal performances, great photos.. all of that can be worked out..

Authentic energy and strenght is what real artists have, even if it's in traces, not completely developed - it could be and it should be developed..

And if I had a record label I would search for those kind of artists and try to keep them focused on developing their music and keep them diligent.

Everything else is business...

The Doors had a great chemistry live and they were authentic.. Jac Holzman surely did the right thing.

Take another examples : Bob Dylan, Neil Young.. etc..

Thanks for your articles, keep them coming!

Have a nice week!

Great articles Derek and some great thoughts here!

If I had a record label, I would only search for authentic artists.

I understand some comments of other people here but in some way I

disagree with terms about playing skills, vocal performances, great photos.. all of that can be worked out..

Authentic energy and strength is what real artists have, even if it's in traces, not completely developed - it could be and it should be developed..

And if I had a record label I would search for those kind of artists and try to keep them focused on developing their music and keep them diligent.

Everything else is business...

The Doors had a great chemistry live and they were authentic.. Jac Holzman surely did the right thing.

Take another examples : Bob Dylan, Neil Young.. etc..

Thanks for your articles, keep them coming!

Have a nice week!

sounds exactly like me.

no, but really, i like what you say about it needing to be someone who works tirelessly, and loves it... like ANYTHING, its the recipe for success. I have to admit, I get down and I would rather be off with a backpack in India or learning flamenco dance... but the music is a bug, it bites you... if we can only maintain our faith that its all worthwhile, its just a satisfying, joyful thing to sink your teeth into. until your 50 and have no house or family, eh

I dont think such list are necessary. There are so many people who have the image, potential, and skills to shine, but cant reach out the right people. They have to be given the opportunity, by outshining other artist with their stunning music. Take me for example, i record and perform hiphop/rap music. But i know for a fact my music has never been heard of... Where im from ( coatesville, PA , currently deployed to IRAQ ) people have a different stlye then what i usually rap about so by being creative, a lot more people clung to me verses them because i was different and sounded good while doing it. Based on that list, if you made a record deal, i would not sign to it.. With fame and fortune comes more responsibility and less desire to care about rules.. its sort of like a power complex thing. But yes this is interesting, check my music out and sign me though.. i love you.

:) fraze

Hi Derek,

all of your points are right and for sure helpfull . . . but all secondary!!

What really and only counts is : does the music reach the soul and feeling of the listener. If that's the case...then you might look at your list and check what else is there. Your list is basicly a collection of facts to make your, as a recordcompany, and the musicians life easier. And yes, in an ideal situation every point you came up with should be there , but in real life it isn't if you deal with really talented and gifted musicians. Somebody who can create masterpieces in music cannot think in rational ways in most cases. The most famous examples are Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Janis Joblin, (and yes) Curt Cobain aso aso.. It would be your job and the managers job to create the right environment for those people to lead them to success.

And I think THAT's the hardest job in the world ( see Jimi Hendrix who was pushed too much). This job can put you in many conflicts with yourself constantly and that's why you probably don't want to form a rec.-company.

If you follow only your points you might have bands with some success but never the real deal. That would be way too easy.

But in our fast times we're already happy if somebody matches your points and again they're not wrong.

You know anything I could say has been said already. LOL

I think your ideas have good points but aren't realistic. I know I sure won't be able to sign to you. I mean I do what I can with what I have, which is not a lot.

A label should help the artist become better not expect the ultimate best from them day one.

i suppose my hearty addiction to coca-cola and dark chocolate leaves me out...too bad. sounds like you've thought about this more than most label theorists.

what a label that would be!!! you took the words right out of my mouth.. (cause i would definitely love to have more artist on my own label) except the whole pecfectionistic stuff because i think if we're too, too, too critical and too too much of a perfectionist, we'll never finish or get anything done. but i see the level of what you're talking about so yes, the music has to be stellar!

I'm not sure that the aforementioned criteria is necessarily the recipe for great music.

Personally, I feel an artist's output and evolution is much more relevant than technical perfection.

If your priority is writing and recording music for the sole purpose expression, chances are, a bid from a good design company doesn't fit squarely into your budget... .you may have to learn how to use Illustrator and Photoshop in your spare time ;)

Sounds boring. Maybe you could take an E out of your name and call it Drek Records.

Take the "OCD" out of overworked music and you may find innocent brilliance... Being able to edit or produce yourself or another musician is a gift like crafting a well-written song, even knowing when not to over wrtie it. But over-thinking and over-rearranging music for the sake of sculpting is arbitrary and self-indulgent.

Bob Marley, Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Tweedy and Bob Dylan all possess beautiful imperfections in their "un-singerly" singing, but their phrasing is beautiful, like a naturally written poem or sonata.

Creating a collective of musicians, bands and performers without having to whore yourself to the mainstream music industry would be wonderful. I think you can do this or at least come close to it without having a bunch of plastic crap in the way of real musical art, but it does take money and connections... ATO, MERGE, LOST HIGHWAY are getting there... And I'm sure there are others.

Oh, and yes Derek, I'd be on your label... I'd enjoy making it simple while others made it hard... Yin and Yang. We could do a few gigs together like the old days... Peace, Juano Lippi

Don't limit yourself. Some of my favorite artists were and are drug addicts. Their stage shows suck. But thats the beauty of art. This article sounds very obsessive-compulsive to me. If you want a good stage show, go see the backstreet boys, if you want art, go watch a Doors video where Jim Morrisson walks off the stage leaving the Keyboardist to cover the vocals and finish the show, now thats art!!!!!

There's a band out there right now called Oh, Hush! doing everything the exact OPPOSITE way that you'd think. They put up a few songs, a logo, no pictures, no image, no band members... just an awesome myspace personality, lots of fan interaction, lots of myspace content, contests and fun... and they've become one of the biggest buzz bands in the country!! Oh, and the songs are fantastic!!

Check it out... great songs... but even greater marketing!!!

www.myspace.com/ohhushmusic

Derek,

I like the list. I think artists in this business should strive to be the best at what they do. Some of us are better musicians than others. Some of us are better singers. Some of us, better writers. Some of us understand how to upload JPEG/MP3 files better than others. We all have different strengths, weaknesses, addictions, flaws. Thats what makes music so boundless. people would do well to focus on their own path, rather than the path of others. Daughtry has made millions. Good for Daughtry. Do I like his music? No. Does he care what I think. No. Is he fulfilling his dreams just like every other human being is entitled to. Yes.

Do I think Daughtry is a lucky S>o>B............................you bet your a@# i do..............................................have a wonderful day in the neighborhood............

jpm

Derek -- Regarding the live shows thing, according to one of your other posts ("Never have a limit on your income"), you don't even GO to live shows. So, if you, Derek Sivers, ran a label, why would you put live performance skills on your list? Then, you would probably have to go to shows some of the time. :)

Thanks for sending the blog links. Interesting to read.

Hey Derek! First of all, THANK YOU SO MUCH for the opportunity you provide to feed my daughter every day. You have enriched my life in so many ways.

I think you would really enjoy Dogwood Speaks. It's a band out of Berkeley, CA with an unreal lead vocalist.

I Totally agree...

Props to Derek for being so engaged in this dialogue... a real king of correspondence.

The real question attached to this is what is the primary function of the label.

If it is purely money many of the factors make sense but I would spend more time gaining control of radio play, media and the other things that matter most. Then the most important feature in the artist would be their dynamic personality which could make the most of an opportunity if it arose. Budget is the main factor that inhibits people and their are likely many artists that while going nowhere on a limited budget would be bigger than Dallas if given access to resources.

On the other hand, if I were rich and money was not the most important thing, I would make discovering people that were creators of a deep magnitude the priority. People that were doing things that were possibly above the conceptual ability of many. Music like this is not easy to detect right away as it takes a devotion from the listener to understand what the music is doing and how it is possibly creating new universes while being great music.

Before electric guitar many music business people probably passed on feedback guitar and aggressive solos as they did not have their head firmly planted in that space.

If I were rich and ran a label I would be looking for people that were ground breaking in conception, likely not doing what is in the mainstream at present. They would have a special magic while creating their own musical language much as the composers of the past did.

Very interesting article, Derek, but I get tired just reading your list. I think often the artist head and the "plays well with others" head (ie, good at in-store appearances) are often not on the same shoulders. I'm a great jazz and blues performer (I think), as well as a jazz and blues songwriter, but offstage I'm an introvert and find interacting with others a little exhausting. My partner Jay Elfenbein is a brilliant bassist and gamba player who's pioneered the gamba as a jazz instrument (GambaDream) as well as founded a medieval group (The Ivory Consort), and composed in every genre--but he's a little intense, and his love of what he does is all about the music and not himself.

I have seen many musicians, conversely, who are incredible extroverts and extremely good at promoting themselves, even with music that is B-flat. And I think I'D be bored out of my mind promoting them. I've also played and done two CDs with an amazing jazz guitarist named Dan Rothstein who is eminently presentable, has worked in business, approaches getting gigs in a methodical way, and still hasn't had anywhere near the success that someone with his unique gifts should have had.

So I think the point of the man above who talked about the guys in the '60s who just threw money at a lot of different groups to see who'd hit is about right--success is a crapshoot, at least "artistically deserved" success.

That said, your site has been invaluable to me, not just as a place to put my CDs and get digital distribution, but as an inspiration. What the site did is make music about MUSIC again. And since I'm in China now and can't distribute my own CDs too well from here, especially my new CD of originals, your site really IS invaluable.

Wow what a great read, as today is my 36th birthday, I think I'm a bit too old to be worried about record labels but I must say that it's fantastic to be able to make my music available through something like CD Baby, even though sales are a bit slow (haven't sold the first one yet). I manage to sell CD's at gigs and make a living from gigs and teaching. If you put effort in and have an open mind I think you can make a living doing what you love.

Best wishes from Australia

Stu

http://cdbaby.com/cd/stumorrison

my friends in Maktub did something rather smart this past year.. they made their fans executive producers and kept full control of the music they produced, releasing the record without any debt to a label.. see this article in west coast performer:

http://www.performermag.com/wcp.cover.0711.php

well if i'd had a record label i would not try to have musicians ,with the focus of getting rich,nor famous(thats why i havent one..).i think the running behind the money is killing your love and your message.the audience don't wanna hear the best played and most perfect song,they wanna hear the most truthful voice and love for the music.look at the real genious(jimi hendrix,charlieparker etc)all of them where a desaster in business.if they got rich and famous after it was just a side effect.look at the world now!junkies of money!i know my band is small,we don't have copyrights,we don't sign anything,our website is bad.but after a year and a half all my pages in my passport are full,played in bad neighbourhoods and for the rich(who sometimes started to cry by feleling so poor after knowing us).many friends i feel a lot of love and most important i have the feeling that i'd never change my live with somebody and coud die luckily today.

be aware that money is a drug that makes you not sleep ,running around like a junky lieing to your friends.

if you want to make music just make music if you want to make money go to the printing industry,if you want power buy yourself a gun...

just be responsible for your acting.

for me the record label criteria are like the ones for an art gallery.taking the ones to get the most profit,eliminating the lazy.....but what for?to work with workaholics?whow much can you eat?whow you enjoy life?

listen to the world we have today...and forget the business!

I would want to be signed to your label. In doing so it makes a statement that I am a serious singer in the music industry. Plus, I'm no kid and have no time to waist. I need this NOW! Michael Kaye

Hey Derek. Love the blogs. You should start that record label, because I fit all the criteria of your artist requirements. We'd be huge lol! And I am definitely not boring lol it's funny to watch all the people whine about the things you say...

All the best, Chris

www.myspace.com/huffrock

I run a label and I do uphold most of those qualities to an extent. I've told many artists to redo the work they've submitted to me because the quality and soul wasn't there. Your idea of music is different from mine, but we both agree on work ethic and keeping a healthy image. I might think that doing black magic, mutilation, noise blasts and being a general ass is a good way to act toward fans/performances. Those are just a few qualities I look for in the music that my label is promoting, you might want some other image for the label your building but its basically the same thing.

As long as the artists believe in what they are doing and doing it well, then being a label boss is super easy when supporting what they do. When they start giving me material that seems so so, they we have a creative conference and talk about how to make it better or whats blocking their vision.

Most of the cats I work with are DIY, dirty, and completely insane. With my label, I wouldn't want them to be any other way.

two artists you would not sign:

The Beatles

Bob Dylan

not saying you are wrong in your qualifiers, honestly in the early sixties before either artist had been signed, i dont think i would have signed either myself, if i were in such a position to do so.

a commitment to art, rhythm , melody, emotion.The music has to come from the heart and soul first everything else falls in place.

i recon derek should decide on artists for his lable after pannel disscutions with a variety of people and hear all there views before making any deicion with signing an artist, different people like different music and have different taists and different reasons why they favor percific material, its very hard to make a decition based on what the popularity wants e.g if you are after a successfull band to take on or a popular group u need to make a group decition lol... i dunno but that is my 2 cents sure i would sign your lable

Zelus

the high knights

Actually, I think it's the flaws in the music that make it most exciting. The music I'm most excited about is on wax cylinders and 78s - where the sound was "crappy" and all the wrong notes had to stay.

It's wabi-sabi and that's what makes it exciting to me.

As a promoter I would agree that your list would be terrific to have, but the bottom line is that really only two things really matter, having the dedication to treat this like a calling, and having material that is continually compelling -- whatever that means, live performance, recorded performance, it just has to catch people's attention and retain it.

I've been toying with the idea of a real label (with artists other than current project Chainsaw Dupont), and the main problem is that 90% of the performers that are eager to send songs are just not any good, and the ones that are good often aren't dedicated enough to show up for meetings (or gigs) on time, and really just want a steady job that lets them not show up on time.

The very small number of performers that can just manage to treat their music career as seriously as, say, accountants or factory workers or policemen treat their jobs would make a good roster for any label, because it is possible to work as a team with them.

Who was it that said "half of becoming famous is showing up?" A lot of the old bluesmen I've known have said that just making the gig is half the gig.

I do know that there's a lot of talent out there, but not a lot of discipline, and as a songwriter I know that I'd never settle for the first draft, but a lot of people in all walks of life settle for "good enough" instead of "good" when judging their own work. I try to be my own worst critic, and when I see that sort of dedication and discipline toward continual improvement, I see someone who is going to be successful -- and by that I don't necessarily mean rich.

This is why most labels are run as a labor of love, and occasionally some of them get lucky and can actually sustain one or two people in a living.

The number one person encouraging me to just do it is Bob Koester, who runs Jazz Record Mart here in Chicago as well as Delmark Records. He started 55 years ago and still complains every time I see him about how much money he's losing. But he always finds a way to make it work, and in his very large catalog there are some of the all-time classic jazz and blues recordings -- along with some stuff that I would call sub-par or average. Nonetheless, it's the occasional masterpiece that makes it worth making the mistakes.

I would agree strongly, however, about avoiding addicts, and I would probably also add avoiding artists with untreated mental or emotional illness, which sort of falls in the same category of things that will keep even a genius from succeeding.

I feel my style is unique. But the record industry seems to tie down its bands to only one genre so I don't seem to fit their criteria as well as age. I can't help myself when I make my tunes. One day I want to make a Rock tune. The next and R&B tune. Country...Punk Rock...Jazz. Hell, I may wanna compose a Japanes Kabuki tune. Freedom baby. I am happy that CDbaby allows for me to do all of the above. I noticed the other day that my music is now on Amazon.com. : )

Thanks

Derek

Oh yeah. Heh heh. My website.

I do in fact have a label for my own work. It's called Wrong Way Works. Contrary to what you might think it is a reference to my method of guitar playing which is identical most notably to Elizabeth Cotten & Albert King. I would have two standards to signing artists - a vision and ideas. That would be my criteria and that has been my template to recording my whole career, have something to say and say it in an interesting way. Have something that is worth putting the time and energy into marketing and licensing. For myself as well as any other artist I would sign I would want to find ample financial opportunities for my work with as little interference to the creative process as possible. Great work can be found at all age levels and so can the vision thing. The biggest obstacle for labels today is marketing dollars.

If you have artists that have a vision and have ideas for their work then all that needs to be done is to market that artist to the appropriate target group.

Hopefully those artists would find acceptance outside the core target group as interest grows and word spreads out from inside the core group. I love the idea of having my own label (actually two- my first one is called Seeing i Records) and having the opportunity to see my work all the way through from

inception to market.

Bob Beland

I am fully impressed with Mr Derek Sivers he is man that was giving good

oppurtunity to all youth artiste I am also very happy that my pakhawaj

solo cd was soonly released by CD Baby.Thanks Mr Derek Sivers

Even crummy rock is better then no rock at all.

If you want to learn how to rock boys and girls you gotta learn how to roll.

Rock it tight and you'll be rockin all night.

If less is more then you take less and I'll take more :-)

have fun. tony

Ah, now, if a label could survive on one artist, you could take me!

Alternatively, you could tell any label folks you talk to that you have the perfect artist for them: ME! ;-)

I don't think we live up to yuor criterias, but if you make a record label we might be interesting anyway: don't you think that lots of people will buy 14 songs of Joni Mitchell that she never released herself? 3 on the latest CD www.cdbaby.com/cd/bigyellowtaxi4 and 11 on the coming "Treasures Of Joni Mitchell" ( www.cdbaby.com/cd/bigyellowtaxi5 ) Thank you for a great cdbaby.

Henning

After all of these years in this business I would say at least you know what you are talking about and what you want in an artist. Too Many lables are only about the money and control not the music.Thats why so many artist turned to their own labels,Hey the money we make is not all that but at lease we can release a CD when we want,Play the kind of music we want and be reconized by fans around the world with all the control of our music futher on us.We can't blame anyone but our self if we don't get out there and make it happen.With cdbaby doing their thing for us and some get up and go how can you lose.

Sema'j

I'm too much of a control freak to ever sign on with a label.

And I buy others music solely because I like it. I don't care if they ever do a concert.

I don't really care about the artists personal life, how they look or any of that other stuff.

The artist/band should be a story. Not a news flash or a horror novel or a gag reel, but an honest-to-God story. Something worth following because it's interesting and engaging.

Pax,

Matthew

http://matthewebel.com

I'd probably lean towards bands comprised of single band members. You don't need them screaming at their cell phones in the back alley behind the venue when they're supposed to be sound checking!

Record lables are not our friends.They are business people trying to make money,and thats it.We all strive to make music.We would all love to hear our music played on a public forum for everyone to hear.Unfortunatly we have no control of that. We don't need another record company, and what you do is far more important than that. I love cdbaby and what it has done for me and others like me. Rock on ! frank.

Well, I guess I'll never be signed. Can't really say that that's why I've been doing this. The fact that any of my stuff has sold remains amazing to me. I don't want to be a rock star (too old for that). I just want to create and play with musicians who can share my enthusiasm for writing and playing. Now that my 4th album is currently being completed, I can't wait to begin the 5th.

Dear Mr. Sivers,

After reading through your list about what you would require from your label artists, as well as the posts, there seems to be much criticism and praise. As a side note, the fact of the matter is the sheer dilution of today’s music scene means the mega bands of the past (Cream, The Who, The Doors, etc) are no longer an entity that can possibly exist. We live in the world of the niche markets, where the majors fight hard, and pay top dollar to maintain control over what is left of their slowly disappearing industry, and small indie bands do just fine if they can reach their own unique fan-base where they are king. Thus, because of said dilution it is ok to demand whatever you want out of a band…because their will always be another to take its place (why do you want the band that can play music, but is flat on stage?…Steve Vai says half the people in the audience are likely tone deaf…that’s a sure money loser)…you just have to find those special few (or maybe in Derek-Sivers-land they have to find you) who have what you are demanding. As for the list itself, how can one reasonably complain about a list that was most likely hastily written, and one that you would likely adjust should your artistic temperament demand such (rules are made to be broken!!).

What I find most intriguing, however, is your aversion to starting said label. Having read your always amusing, definitely thought provoking blogs, one might think you would be more inclined to starting a label. Not only would it help certain musicians, but it would be a challenge, something you seem to seek. An enormous challenge to say the least, something to really get you up in the morning, and stimulate you throughout the day. No doubt there would be some tasks you might consider dull in the process, but I could hardly imagine a more talented individual when it comes to outsourcing. Above all, however, it would be YOUR label (LabelBaby?...Baby Records?), and YOU would decide what would go on it, and what anyone else said would not matter. You could look at it as if you were judging people based on your own criteria, but the people involved might see it as slightly more useful than that. So, what do you say, DerekBaby? Anyway, as you well know, the most important thing is that you are enjoying life every step of the way, whatever activity you may be perusing.

I hope if you happen to read this, my musings haven’t been a waste of your time. Have a nice day :).

P.S. Van Morrison and the Doors? The Beatles? Maybe super-groups, but who are they compared to Bach, who really wasn’t truly appreciated until the time of Mendelssohn and Schumann.

so, of the artists you love, really love, to listen to - how many fit that list, Derek?

The list could be fine as a kind of checklist to figure out how big a risk someone is, and maybe how to manage that risk.

But the criteria I *wish* labels were using are more along these lines :

Would the world be missing anything much if these guys never got heard outside their home town?

Is anyone, outside of a few anoraks, going to give a shit about this artist 10 years from now?

To some, those reasons are way too idealist to be "commercially viable". But, who are the artists whose back catalogues you wish you owned a chunk of today?

You know, Derek, all this promoting and marketing sounds like a lot of work. I think most artists do what they know, which is writing and performing music, and it's the rare musician who also has the business acumen to make lots of money at it. I appreciate your efforts to try educating us. But when, for example, I need a killer sax riff in one of my recordings, I get the best sax player I can find to bring that expertise to the project rather than laying down a half-assed sax line on my own. Same with business, which is why I don't do my own taxes either. I understand that this opinion may condemn me to eternal obscurity in the greater musical universe. I take solace in the fact that Emily Dickinson's poetry didn't find its way out of a box until she was in one.

Sign me up! I match all of your criteria, IMHO. Well, some are subjective. Although I am addicted... to endorphins!

I think the professionalism of the artist is extremely important. The longevity of an artist has to do with their drive and work ethic. A lot of times as artists, we get so caught up in our art and how great our music is that we neglect things like being on time, being personable, professionalism, and not forgetting that this does have to pay our bills. I know so many talented artists who SUCK at the business side of things so they never reach their full potential. While no one is perfect, it's hard to invest in someone that doesn't think outside their CD because you can have a hit song, but if you lack that drive to take you to the top, no one else can help you.

Sincerely,

Shanelle Gabriel

Singer/HBO Def Poetry Jam Artist

Derek,

I'm not sure you need a label to promote good music. BUT, as I have suggested to you before, why not start or sponsor a radio program that plays the music of those musicians who have trusted their music to you to do your job (and you've done it well!). This would open up the listening world to the vast library of music at CD Baby.

The biggest impediment to selling songs contiues to be airplay. The big 3 have a lock on what gets heard and a vested interest in keeping independents out. Satellite radio would be perfect as launching pad or maybe even NPR ala "American Roots". "THE CD BABY INDEPENDENT RADIO SHOW".

Keep up the great work!

Most of the big names don't even meet a few of these requirements, but the big labels carry them anyway. They really do carry them. Obviously Britney Spears would never have gotten anywhere without a lot of help, and that applies to most big name "artists". They have music engineers behind them building their songs according to formulas that are designed to appeal to the "mass market", and they have very capable promoters with unlimited resources, who would have no problem selling jalapenos in Hell. They are packaged and marketed with precision to create an image based on what has worked in the past, and there's always a lot of sex, sex, and sex. It works, and it makes fantastic amounts of money, but it takes a lot of money to start with, and it has no artistic value at all.

Most of the music that I have collected in my CD rack comes from independent musicians because they have real talent, and I like their music. I don't care if I never head them on the radio or saw them on TV. I don't care how good they are at promotion or business management. I care what comes out of the speaker when I play the CD, that's all. If I go to see them play, I hope they have had a bath recently and they don't have BO.

I have been seriously impressed by musicians who are really beautiful to look at, as well as others who look like homeless bums. There were a couple of guys at a coffee house in Davis who looked like total slackers who lived under a bridge somewhere, and their equipment looked like it came out of a dumpster, but they did an incredible hour long fusion improv session which was one of the most awesome things I have ever seen. They were brilliant!

I saw a harpist who I fell in love with instantly at a Pagan fair. I watched totally entranced for a half hour before I bought a CD. If her music sucked, I might still have watched, but I would not have bought the CD. She played some beautiful traditional Celtic songs, as well as some of her own. I was in love, but she was married. Rats. People who hear the CD don't ask me what she looks like. They just say something like "Wow!". That's good enough.

For me, it's the music that really matters. If the music does not make it with me, then no amount of flash and polish can fill the void.

If I was running a record label, I would sign anyone who I think might bring in a lot of money first, regardless of anything else, but when I became well off enough to do it, I would sign artists who I really like, and help them with all the promotion and paperwork so they can concentrate on what they do best. Of course, that is an ideal scenario. In reality, I am awful at promotion and paperwork, I spend grueling hours at it and accomplish almost nothing. I try to keep it to a minimum because it takes a HUGE amount of energy away from the actual music. It really is the music that matters.

Make music for yourself... That's what people really want to hear.

e

Derek, i just want to say that i love the way your mind works!! You make me laugh and at the same time impress me with how busy you have yourself...all the accomplishments you have achieved. I could also be quite impressed with someone who has reached a complete satisfaction with life and therefor has mastered the art of doing nothing! lol.

Anyhow, i'd be honoured to have you, Derek Sivers, as my promoter because i believe you are driven. And driven is a good ingredient in achievement.

I thank you for creating CdBaby, Hostbaby, and for the cool anecdotes you share! You rock!

I also wish you the best with your life and had quite a good chuckle upon learning that you took some time off, made it so that CdBaby could run without you, went backpacking and all 'on an inward journey', and then set up a new company in another country. Hahaha. Work-a-holic comes to mind! Focused, driven.....

In peace & unity bro!

Fara Palmer

PS: i know....i suck....i was supposed to write something about this post. And hey, while i'm on the subject...i thought your list was interesting, but that i also fit many(definately not all) of your "have to be before you sign an artist to your label" items. Cheers!

Where’s cross-collateralization?

Where’s a clause for those that fit when you sign ‘em but flake out after ‘making it’?

But seriously, I love to entertain the thought of being what you want just to see you surprised when you discover that none of those points would guarantee any capitalistic viablity.

I won’t ask you to suffer my ‘whys’ on a point-by-point basis, but you realize as counterpoints there are rebuttals for each of your bullets that can be drawn from music history archives. Understanding that most of those examples were only capitalistically fruitful as ‘anomolies’. The only real gamble a label starting in this current business climate should ever take is on the ‘anomoly’ – with the follow up of pretending that making money off of the ‘noble art mission’ is just accidental…

☹ Labels are shams and sterilizers – an ultimate pyramid scheme preying on dreams and the muse-driven…don’t go there please Derek…

☺ Distributors and publishers are enablers – and all any commmercial artist should need (if they already fit your list) - like CDBaby is to us...

But the non-commercial artist who can’t stop making music because it would rot their soul not to play and write - they are indifferent to your list - even if they never see a dime – that’s the true anomoly in today’s Guitar-Hero/American Idol world.

My motto is “Measured against the success of others in my crafts, I am grossly insignificant. But measured against my own personal obstacles and the odds against me, my successes are mind boggling.”

Still, I create because I MUST release creative output, in spite of the fact that the first part of the motto rings louder in my ego-ears than the second part.

Genres, rules, criteria, major labels, business, money, fans, fame, people, news, press, promo, buzz, blog, website, shopping cart, paypal, entertain, cater??? – none of those have any place inside the part of me that is an artist.

The other part of me is ALL about those things. So if I HAD to start a label, my criteria for artists would be nearly identical to yours, with the inclusion of the points from Jody Whitesides (2nd response to your original post).

Wow, am I really glad I don’t have to start a label for anyone else’s muse or mission – 'I already got one of those' - thanks for reminding me Derek!

Love the list

Music gets to the point

I do too

When I hear "that was f' ing amazing" I know I did my job as a singer.

I strive to be beyond "f'ing amazing"

Derek rocks!

Mykel

If you ever start the label check out "Swamp Baby" (from upstate NY.. if they're still around at such time.. I'm not in this band but they are dear friends of mine from back east with an awesome attitude towards their art)

I have a style of music that while, basically in the genre of "rock," it doesn't sound like a lot of other things out there. Now, I know everyone is supposed to sound like someone else, but I have yet to hear anyone who I can say "Hey! That souns like me!." This is not something a lot of record producers/promoters/labels would want to take a chance on. In fact, it is the very thing most want to avoid simply because by investing in an unusual sound, there's a chance that no one else will 'get' it. I know for a fact that no one here in Harrisburg, PA got what we were doing when we were playing live, even though there were lots of positive comments on our website. A record label is in business, therefore, taking a chance on a new sound in this day and age when bands need to sell over a million copies of a debut just to be considered successful is unheard of, if not outright stupid. I would like to see a label that works with artists to get them the desired publicity and grow their audience--therein selling more units. Well, I can dream, can't I?...

Just one more passing comment on this very interesting thread. I notice that even the hypothetical mention of a record company elicits waves of excitement from many, as even the hint of an opportunity to have their music heard is like a breath from heaven. The craving for a fair chance to make a noticeable footprint with the artists creative product might make people crawl over broken glass for such a deal. And yet, the power of CD baby, I-tunes and the like has done much of the work for creator/performer.

The heart of the problem is that the outlets for listening by a larger audience remains cemented down with financial impediments so large that virtually no one outside of the loop can ever hope to manage it. A large national radio/satellite radio/television complex (with physical distribution connected to it worldwide) that would have as its priorities airing unknown musicians/writers would have a much stronger impact than another record company, though the record company would be quite good.

Many astounding surprises would come from such a super-complex for unknown artists and the venture would likely be extremely profitable. The numbers of people sending their energies into such novel idea would be great as evidenced by the mention of a mythological record company and its attendant excitement.

The big unknown and positive of this is the large number of artists that will have very engaging personalities of the vigor and size to drive excitement and public attention to the venture and the music.

Just one slender chance might be enough for the next great music, musician/writer and entertainer.

I myself would work for free on such a project if anyone would seriously begin it.

There are truly great unsigned musicians among us. There are truly talented unpublished songwriters among us. I meet them everywhere I go in this country. There was a time four decades or so ago when record companies had enough revenue to explore artists in hope of finding a diamond in the rough. The route to stardom at that time was also Top 40 radio. Those days are gone.

It is up to the artist to launch their musical career. At what point in your musical endeavor do you need a manager? Unless you have deep pockets, it is that point at which you no longer have time to manage the endeavor on your own. Managers cost revenue.

At what point do you, the artist, need a record label? For most of us, the answer is that point where a record label becomes interested, AND can do more for you than you can do on your own. It is not some point where the quality of your recording hits someone else's idea of superb. Ever wonder how mediocre songs get on the radio to begin with?

Derek- I was reading a lot of the replies to your article and I have to say that you do seem to put your bar very high but I agree with most of what you said. Musicians have to be an entire package now and so they should be. I would be a WICKED part of your label!

If you had a label, I'd be the quiet one in the bunch. I agree with your list but I would still need artist development :) Some days I feel it some days....well you know!

Yes. I would sign. And I think that you would sign me, based on your criteria.

So where can I find a label like yours? Is there a not-just-hypothetical label that's as non-evil as CDBaby and has standards like the ones you outlined?

Derek,

I've read your "list" and many of the replies as well. It seems that many of the people replying missed your tongue in cheek criteria. Your point at the end about "The Doors" is well taken. It seems to me that you are encouraging artists/musicians to think outside the box and to NOT conform to such stringent rules. I have come across soooo many industry types that are in fact looking for musicians to fit these criteria and in doing so they overlook so many talented yet flawed individuals. Artists are a fragile lot. They need to be given a chance to succeed by the powers that be. i wouldn't sign to a label like the one you described. Why would I do ALL the work so that some one else could profit from it after having done nothing?

Tom/Joe Rockhead

Derek: I've brought the mixes on my tracks to a point of satisfaction. Now, because of your letter I have this great curiosity for your opinion. Can I send one to you? If so,where to. It will be highly appreciated. My next phocus will be promotion and distribution. Thank you very much

Best Regards

James Whitney

"Most" of the things listed are true, but I personally am not the most talented artist on my own label, but I am the BIGGEST SELLER and the most POPULAR.

What most artists are missing these days is something called HARD WORK. I know alot of artists say they work hard but are they working as hard as they can?

I get up at 4am everyday except Sundays. I make my East Coast calls, then I move on the my Midwest calls then when it is around 8am my time out West I make my West Coast and North West business calls. Then I go out into the "streets" and sell cds and hand out samplers and flyers. After that I go to every local Record Store and promote within the store. When I come home at night I make e-mails linking people to my cdbaby site. On Saturday and some Sundays I travel over 300 Miles hitting every major city handing out samplers and flyers and also hanging posters.

When I am not doing that I am doing shows and recording music. I get about 4 Hours of sleep only every night. My artists that don't work as hard as me, don't sale 1/3 of what I do. They can't seem to understand how they don't sell more units then me when they have more "TALENT"?


http://www.cdbaby.com/llove

yes l will sign a label that gives the accurate artist needs

Why not try to make some kind of distribution deal with distributers, instead of a record company?, With allready quite succesful cd baby parents? If someone is selling constantly that is an indicator that it

would sell even more if given chance? ( realizing of course, that classical

and jazz and other not so mass appealing music forms may also be included, but with more limited editions? ( maybe big record companies

are holding distribution labels by the balls...so you couldn´t negotiate

a decent deal? ) Go figure...

Vyasa : CD Baby has done that already, but it is invitation-only. Meaning: if you have sold thousands through cdbaby.com they will contact you to invite you into a deal with Warner Music.

Derek : The only reason they want to get involved is the smell of money. Right? Not to support the Artist?? Like we.

But in that case Why would I sign? Cause I would have to give all

My hard earned money to them ( there´s one for you nineteen for me!!)That is their Agenda.

They have not done anything, so why should I give my control away?

Why one would want to support those people? ( is beyond me! )

Is it possible to create somekind of

New distribution company?

On basis like cd baby? Stores: Separate

cd baby sections? Might work in some places.

How about cd baby

radiostation supporting our artist? We´ll see...

An Enlightening story.

I saw an interview of Chris Squire. He said ; ´ After we finished 90125 which sold over 8 million copies, record company came to us saying

`Lads, We Just found a check for you... (1000 000 $ Lying in office somewhere accidentally misplaced for 10 years...They just found out this! )

Yeah! Right!...it was so hilarious that the guys just fell down laughing...!

Derek:

If you had a label of course I would love to be signed by it. You are totally trustworthy and give the artist creative freedom. Yes, let me know when you decide to do a label. I you don't sign me we could also work as partners.

I think your thing about having to be gigging, recording, and around for at least two years is ridiculous and the rest of it seems a little impossible to fit.

Is this like "If I had a hammer?" hahaha!

SO GLAD I just found this!!

I do have to agree with your list, certainly from a label profit and artist stability point of view, however it seems that many of our music 'greats' would have contradicted half of the requirements on this list!

music is our passion we love to perf
orm and entertain everybody at the same time the giving awareness to everybody that life is sometimes good and sometimes bad and all problems are not the same. No one is never alone search our band called PICAN TROOPERS and let me know the feedback do we deserve to be signed? Or not.

Loksmoke is pretty good huh.

An amusing, affectionate post.

I am reminded of the Chief Executive Officer of a large company who looked at the hiring description, from his junior executives, for an entry level job, maybe for the mail room guy.

The CEO laughed because, like for Derek's record label, the description was so comprehensive and idealistic. Then he said to his executives, "If someone had all those characteristics, then he would have my job!"

... Somebody once said: While very few of us will ever be masters at our art or craft, all of us who are good are striving to one day be masters.