Are you at the starting line or the finish line?

This may be your most important post ever.

Our society is so hooked on numbers (the game, the poll, the salary) that they make us feel better even when they have absolutely no context or meaning.

I hope this will be a wake up call for many artists.

Fran

Very interesting post. As a home studio owner/operator I see bands of all kinds, and it's interesting to see if they have the starting line and finish line approach.

My band sold about $150 per album, less than average, but we were really pushing our own web store.

A huge percentage of our CD Baby sales (around 80%) were not promoted at all. Now that I run a recording studio, I recommend CD Baby to all of my clients because of my experience with these CD Baby shoppers just looking for new music.

I got a big kick outta your math breakdown -- have you read Taleb's book The Black Swan? It really messed my head up and forced me to rethink the assumptions and heuristics I've been using since I was taught probability.

I'm curious -- is there a published list of your top 50 sellers? I'm obviously asking because I'd be making them into a research project, so I'd understand if that's proprietary info.

I'll go check @ the CD Baby site, if you've already posted it there, ignore this and forgive my ign'ance.

I love this question! Anyone that finishes an album, a well crafted piece of work, deserves credit for finishing something. But that doesn't entitle one to make a living from it. It seems we earn the title of "working artist" when we use the tools of our art to get paid. As satisfying as it is to complete your disc, if we want to make a living solely as a musician, I don't think we can look at albums as anything but a starting line.

The rub in promotion is that it takes time and money. Time is most under-rated by most people. I think of the series "Rome" and Cicero is about to be executed. He is given a moment to contemplate and he looks to the sky, taking in all of its sweetness from the clouds and powder blue expanse. You don't need be near death to understand the value of time. Every minute is an opportunity in its self to squeeze the most out it. Which would be better, pitching people, pasting fliers, calling radio stations etc. or gradually building colossus of some musical construction? Tampering with the delicate lines of counterpoint or cold calling people, imploring that they purchase you wares?

Of course it is critical to take the CD much further after it is finished, sharing it is a monstrous piece of joy that no one should ever miss. So how about accumulating a lot of projects first and promoting them all at once? Then every dollar spent works on not one but maybe 15 CDs. Any energy that comes from media exposes a group of creations rather than just one. This will allow you to be very extravagant and overdo the promotion phase because so much is getting done due to this efficiency. What do you think?

releasing my latest, my fourth ever but my first as a solo artist, I definitely had the above conversation with myself. I decided that the album would be an additional experience for the fan who decided to take a listen. So far I've had my best live sales at an outdoor show that happened at a park picnic pavilion. I didn't know anybody there but I made a lot of friends! And nothing I've ever done sounds like my new one.

love your guts everybody!

AEB

Good article, great insight! I did find myself thinking that it would be interesting to know what the median sales per CD is, i.e., where is the top of the bell curve?

My album on CD Baby is digital distribution only and I've not done a lot of promotion. CD Baby and the 20 digital vendors it has distributed my music to have not produced much as of yet.

Maybe this is a confirmation of the need for getting the word out, but I wonder if CD Baby folks are still more interested in physical CDs than MP3s?

I can say that most of my sales have been directly from my web site, which is due to online promotion at music forums I frequent.

For us the completion of an album is always a starting line. For our last release in April, we created a special website just for the album based on Mikhel Raud's ebook (which I would not recommend at this time) and linked it and our CD Baby/iTunes from everywhere - MySpace, Facebook, our main website, etc. We actively promote on MySpace, in our newsletter, and in person by handing out free professional sample CDs and fliers. We play about 4 - 5 live shows a month. But we've only sold three copies of our physical CD through CD Baby, as well as a smattering of digital distribution through iTunes. All three of those physical CD customers were people we knew personally or otherwise already knew about the band. We did sell one copy of our previous album to a complete stranger from the UK, which was cool. Maybe we just suck and no one will give us the hard truth?

On the other hand we typically sell an average of 1-2 CDs per show, even if there are only a couple of people who have never seen us before. The quality of the recordings are totally pro, and we spent upwards of $10k on the full production. There are people who record an album on the cheap as the finish line and sell more copies online to their friends than we sell period. There are seemingly two logical conclusions to draw from this - either we suck at music and are not making a product that most people would want to buy. Or we suck at marketing and despite actively promoting are failing to reach/convert new people. Or a combination of both.

I'm sure we will put out a few more CDs, but eventually the "starting line" album may become the "finish line" album if we can't sort it out.

A very thought-provoking question, Derek. I chose to release a CD for the purpose of sharing my compositions with whomever might enjoy them. I also considered the CD release as a way to "test the waters" from the creative side; and, to determine if the CD might actually generate enough sales revenue for reinvestment purposes. From what I've found, budget plays a key part in that "line" you've referenced.

One small comment on the people that worried that their music "sucked" because of small sales. The music is what it is and if you think it is premiere then it is just that. There is an enormous mass of music being made on the earth today and people are being bombarded with it around the clock, on the radio, at the store, TV, the computer and a million other places. Everyday there are more than 200,000 cds produced. Just look at the enormous daily offering at cdbaby. So try to move merchandise but leave the judgment to your ears and not your inventory sheet.

I too believe it all matters what you put into it. I mean I had a very talented hip hop group I managed, and I gave them a lot of word of mouth publicity and all of a sudden people loved their music. Their motivation though was making an album, they didn't care about sales, shows or anything and I had to let them go. Talent means nothing in record sales, it just sets how long your success will last. Success is different per person, per genre, per etc. It all matters on your situation. With the group, last I heard they are still happy recording songs and working a day job, and I'm trying to break the day job curse so I can call music a career. That is my finish line, and I've already passed checkpoints getting a music and entertainment business degree. Now its all a matter of finding mentors and talent to work with. Great post silvers! One of the most important I've read in a long time, and I read industry blogs daily.

Good point. Good pep talk for the next album. But I'm confused, and tired! Am I supposed to be practicing and gigging my ass off to achieve musical nirvana, or chatting and promoting myself tirelessly? 'Cause I can't do both, and while I love the first, the second activity exhausts me. I'm going back to bed...

Yet another brilliant point that Derek makes! Once any artist releases an album, it is a great starting point and accomplishment. Those who want to sell cd's & downloads must attack many avenues of promotion. Just performing live may not do the trick anymore for most songwriters.

My albums, and I have released many, are at the line of continuum. I look at it this way: for at least 1 yr from my release, I consider an album to be new, so i never stop promoting it as such religiously to new and potential fans. In the meantime to keep current fans fresh, I continue to create and write new songs, new ideas, collaborations, contests etc.. There is no right or wrong in this business, you just have to try everything, but be smart about where you fit in and have no fear when it comes to taking chances. Playing it safe rarely works.

Those are my thoughts anyway :)

oh my god. that was the best and best-timed advice i've ever been given. thanks again derek! in response to alexa: i guess that's the downside of being an independent artist - yeah, you gotta jam out tunage AND promote it!

Another great email from you Derek. Thanks for sharing you thoughts on being a independent artist!

One of my problems is I think Jen's music appeals to a slightly older crowd... the ones that don't go out to concerts all the time, and don't look at music blogs etc...

that was a good little article. Im still promoting my albums as hard as I can wile at the same time writing new material for another release (I have a side project aswell, which im getting together to release some material, so im very busy just now. I have noticed that over the last couple of months that my sales have nosedived though. I put it down to all this disinformation about a 'credit crunch' anyway, you can check out my stuff at

cdbaby.com/cd/machinima2 and over at myspace.com/hybridmachinima =)

Brilliant post Derek. It's like you have a crystal ball. It made me take a good hard look at my situation. All i saw was checkered flags...

I have a good online presence but someone else mentioned the huge glut of music on the market. I'm proud of my accomplishement and working on two more cd's...but they are not in genres that seem to be what sells most. At this point, my CD sales are stone cold dead but my digital distribution for a couple songs just keep on going along...word of mouth sales i would guess....mostly iTunes. I bet those folks you mentioned that made 100k all tour or play out regularly. Most my friends that gig regularly sell more cd's at gigs than at CDbaby by far. Selling from home takes alot of time and effort.

Is the crystal ball for sale?

Pinedog

Derek is completely right about two different kinds of releases. I'm kind of in between, - just keep recording and releasing as much music as I can ( I have no possibility to tour for couple of years). The times are changed, you can not keep promoting same album for two years or more unless you're not signed with Major, I think. Fans wannna hear new music, that's for sure. So, in my case probably the amount of music and high quality will matter.

A cute little analogy Derek; not entirely correct, but cute. After all, those who work themselves to death on their music (regardless of talent, political contacts ect.)still get ignored and make nothing. I would advise your readers to see the whole picture and to be realistic that not all dreams come true.

Well I must confess When I First dropped the album I had all intention

of being at the Starting Line but I never followed through with it.I just

recently after a couple years finally started to put ads out and giving my cdbaby url out to the public.I know is kinda way too late for this being that I'm about to drop my second album in a couple months.I'm pushing it now but the album is so old I can't find the motivation to be hyped about it.When I first signed up to cdbaby.com I was computer illiterate.That's around the same time I finally owned my own PC.I have had plenty of computer training since so I will be more than ready when my second album drops.I not giving up on my first Ima still pump it.Okay,that's it until next time..Lord bless and stay focused.

This seems to be more of a comment on society in general, the WalMart culture perhaps. By that I mean peole seem to have been trained to accept less and less when it comes to quality, in anything.

Therefore, it really does not matter to them if the music is good or bad, if it happens to appeal to them. So, they will pay less, get less, enjoy it less, and never even realize it.

Most of you must admit, if you are over 25 or 30 that quality is not a priority anymore. How many homes built today will be around in 100 to 150 yers and be admired for their quality and construscton?

So what I think I am saying is tht a musicican you need, or must stick to your guns, turn out quality, believe in what you are doing, that is why you need to have quality, you know in your mind it is a good recording regardless of what it does commrcially, you can be proud of it anyplace you take it, or hear, and not be afraid toadmit it is yours.

Keep turning out quality. There is an old expression that "The cream always rises to the top", make sure you are the cream.

Thaks

Casey Dilworth

For me every Album is like start a race!

Without the support of large media such as Radio and TV is hard and painful achieve the objectives!

Today, no one wants to work to earn money they want money to work like PROMOTERS AGENTS A&R AND LABELS!

Money, order on what we are obliged to listen!

Any bad sound with money reaches the success in a week!

A great talent without money sometimes takes centuries!


For you DEREK SIVERS o helps people without big money to achieve dreams A big hug!

Dj Full Visionary


http://www.djfullvisionary.page.tl

www.myspace.com/djfullvisionary

You know, I have been slowly getting it together to start marketing my new CD and sure it's taking a long time but I am cool with that. But people keep saying to me, so when you doing th next one, and I am like, I will be selling this one for the next year. What's the big hurry?

By the feedback I've been getting on my newly released project...I say it's a starting line. The more people are hearing and seeing it, the more people are becoming interested in it. A friend just got back from California...the LA area...and said they liked it a lot out that way, which is actually the style of music I make. So, it was good to hear that. We have set up for me to do some good promoting out that way and some shows as well. The one thing that catches the eye of my consumers is the way I have it packaged. Also, the way I present it to them.  When I cross a new customer, I introduce myself as an artist, I inform them of my record label and production company, then I offere them a biz card along with my album. We speak for a minute til I inform them of my clothing line as well...so it all ties into people realizing who is serious about their career persuit of their music and this makes people want to support independent artists!   WUUD w/2HoLLoTyp$ CEO, Balla Boytm Record$/YAVY WHYP Production$ Oklahoma City, OK

Hi Derek,

Thanks for the insight I respect your opinions and value them always. Interesting ? When I try to sell .....people buy my music ....who would have guessed ???

I figure 3 cds a day would boost my income from lower middle poor to middle of the line poor. Three a day at 30 days in the month...$900.00

thanks,

Al

Agree. Many of the artists that ask me to produce act as though it is the last record they're ever going to make. IT'S ONLY THE FIRST RECORD IF YOU ACTUALLY USE THE OPPORTUNITY!!

Ben Dowling - pianist, composer, producer, musical-director http://www.bendowling.com http://www.myspace.com/bendowling

Starting line, though not for a race, more like a marathon or even a series of tournaments: an "Opvs Imperivm Bellvm" or as the title of that Led Zeppelin song goes, an epic "Battle of Evermore"...

Starting line we need help

hey Derek,                  Well I'd like to be at the starting line, but time and work and health issues have really slowed me down.  I getting better in the health department.  but not everything else. I haven't had to time to truly promote my CD as I'd like to.  I believe it will really bless those that hear it thou.  So I'm kind of in between leaning toward the finish line, but wish I was at the starting line. 

Calvin Moore

Excellent, as always!

We are in that $20.00 bracket, we need help! Eddie Thomas

Thanks for your letter. We have already had this discussion. CD Baby is selling my CD for me. Very, very slowly. I cannot tour at the moment, as I am recuperating after heart treatment.

  Love, Pops

my album is a starting line!!!! Fredrik

by the way check out the frsh video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFvAEdxN1i0

One of my problems is I think Jen's music appeals to a slightly older crowd... the ones that don't go out to concerts all the time, and don't look at music blogs etc...

I have not made the Big sales on C.D. Baby but it has offered me some great ideas from The Start . Our C.D. Then and Now Robbin McCombs Featuring The Story of HIRAM our song about Hank Williams Sr. and we are from his hometown , Robbin lived with me in Hank's boyhood home when he wrote the song .

We recorded this in Nashville with Don Helms Hank's original steel player playing his original steel that he used with Hank onthe road .

Don Helms passed away recently he was a musical icon . I have pushed the C.D. heavily the last few weeks . You may say Big Deal ! BUT listen to this . I have a lady's group that puts out a yearly book about Hank Sr. they are trying to decide if they want to add The Story of Hiram this year as a fundraiser .

I have also had someone contact me for The Story of Hiram possibly to be added into a T.V. Documentary about Hank Sr. & his Wife in the near future .

I contacted another store that is considering to place the C.D. into their 500 Stores . So please tell every musician out there YES Do Not Just put out your product put it out in front of as many people as possible and to use any and every means to get your music out to the buying public .

I use tactics to do this and I feel that I have had moderate sucess in 8 years BUT NOW I FEEL THAT I HAVE ONLY SCRATCHED THE SURFACE and I am thinking of even putting out a book including The Story of Hiram because I was the person that placed Hank's Boyhood home on Alabama's Historical Register and turned it into a museum here .

Lots of exciting things happening and a bright future ahead . Thank You

Howard Lofton Georgiana ,Alabama Hank's hometown LoMac Records

Hello Derek, Starting line... The concept behind all of my work is visual. All projects are... The starting line! Thanks Chris

You know, I think an important factor in the 'starting line or finishing line' question is, what level of expertise does the person have at marketing themselves? Do they have helpers, or an organization? As a producer and musician, I know that finishing the project is within my skill set. I have also been a radio music director, and run a marketing business-- but find I don't feel comfortable selling myself. I need someone else to do it. To keep with a race analogy-- I need someone to pass the baton to, so they can run the next leg of the race. But I've spent all my money on the recording! What do I do now??? James Evans (latest project: "Sleight of Hand" by Ten of Clubs)

Hi Derek: I am definitely at the starting line. I believe in doing each thing I do the best I can do with what I have before moving on. One sort of problem with that is when to be satisfied enough to move on. I have just done one more careful remix, and I am finished re-packaging. So beginning within the next two weeks I will devote every possible moment to getting work, promoting, and distribution. I absolutely believe in devotion and hard work or whatever it takes to get the job done, but first I must believe in the product that I am selling. So, just to feel a little more confident I will show my material to the young and elderly , and anyone that digs my type of music especially my professional peers. I do feel ready, and I won't change anything unless I receive the same comment because I first trust my own judgement.

I'm at the starting line, and I am excited about it as I know I must be to follow through. Thank you Derek for your kind consideration. You are a tremendous help to me and many,many others because of MY SPACE, and beyond.

Very best Regards James Whitney

I really like your company

Dear Derek,

This is Jean Snyder.  Perhaps you remember I have had CDs with you...Quiet Time, Pure Outlook, and others.  We presently have a company called "BLUE CHAIR WORLD.com" and Anna Moo has told us that you are the best people to sell our CDs.  I am glad, therefore, that you wrote to me.  We have our website and the idea is to have the CDs presented on the website with clips...that you can hear...then, to order, CD BABY would do the job.  We have some big conferences coming up so I am thinking we want to consider this soon.

Thanks for writing.

Jean Snyder Composer

In my opinion, an album should most definitely be the starting line of a new chapter in the life of an artist. It is the one product in which the next year's tour, merchandise, marketing, radio, and promotions will be based off of. It is the story of where the band has been, and where it is currently showing growth and maturity.

-Jeremy Willet

http://www.willetonline.com/

For me, my first project was in the second category. I made a lot of marketing errors before "Down to the Village" ever got to CD Baby. I have made note a all of the fabulous information I have now received from Derek and others and have begun to plan the next recording project. When I do, I will plan to be in the first category - and then perhaps folks will get so interested in the prior release that I'll have to reprint!

Jim Crozier http://jimcrozier.com http://myspace.com/thejimcrozierband http://cdbaby.com/cd/jimcrozier

It is the starting line.

Thanks, John

www.myspace.com/johnpenabass1

That's freeking great advice, Derek - THANK YOU!!!

Hi Derek,

Great points you are making in this email. I have thought for many years that without touring, I would not sell a single CD; alas I was wrong (sort of). That said, most of my touring musician friends sell more CD's in one night at various bar gigs than I do in any given year on the net. It's cool to see all their fans crowding around to grab up the last CD the band has available that night.

I have shared sales data with several bands I know around the country (USA). Most of them use table tents to gather email, physical addresses, and phone numbers of CD purchasers for their data bases. This leads me to believe that Mr.Budweiser is a pretty viable sales guy. LOL!

I promote my work mostly on the internet, zero budget with some mixed results.

I'm thinking the majority of CDbaby's are in similar circumstances. I wanted to thank you for 10 years of music lessons. I learned a great deal about music, life, business more importantly; people. I hope you are on a sandy beach some where, laptop and umbrella drink in hand my friend, because you have surely earned it.

Peace,

Jimmy Stuckey/J.T.RED

Hey Derek! Thank you for the motivation!

I have the perfect song to echo your words: "It's up to You" ...that's actually the name of the song too!

It's going to be on my new album that I"m about to release in the next month....

-LarissaNess www.LarissaNess.com www.MySpace.com/LarissaMusic

Hey Derek, thanks for the e-mail, yes I agree, it takes sweat and tears to sell records .. AFTER it is completed. ..and marketing, talking, networking..doing whatever it takes- kind-of-attitude is the only way to sell. Just waiting for someone to buy doesn't work. My favorite notion is : ACTION creates RE-ACTION ... (positive I hope) Thanks again Peace Lea Longo www.lealongo.com

I've never heard it put so clearly. Thank you. I need to get off my butt and do more promoting!

vicki

Step into Your Greatness with Vicki Hannah Lein www.stepintoyourgreatness.us

Just wanted to thank you and say that this article was great I wish you the very best , you and your heart are truly a gift to world

Sincerely Lloyd Gregory

HELLO MR DEREK SIVERS .. OK IT'S REALITY SOME MUSICIANS MAKE CDS TO PLEASE THAM SELF ...US I MEAN YOU AND MY POEPLE KNEW LUKO ADJAFFI HAD TALENT AND A MESSAGE SO MY OWN LABEL MERVILTON RECORDS AND THE HELP OF CD BABY GOT NOTICE WITH THE MAJOR ... I LUKO ADJAFFI TOOK MUSIC MY CARRER VERY TOP PRIORITY IN MY JOURNEY HERE ON THIS PLANET ..THANK YOU CDBABY ...LUKO ADJAFFI WWW.LUKOADJAFFI.COM

ONE MORE THING FROM BEING AN INDIE TO A MAJOR ARTIST THE OPPORTUNITIES ARE SKY IS THE LIMITE ...TOO ME CDBABY AND MY PUBLICIST PUT ME ON THE MAP ...WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT MY LABEL WE;LL STAY WITH YOU FOR EVER ..LUKO ADJAFFI WWW.LUKOADJAFFI.COM

Hey Derek! Just getting into the starting blocks, no where near the finish line...

Michael

Great question! and encouragement for all of us who are continually hustling their project.... Thanks!

Mooki >> Justpassingthru

-- Mooki (the artist formerly known as Mike) » Justpassingthru » » http://www.new.facebook.com/pages/Justpassingthru/9550071625 » Facebook » http://www.ilike.com/artist/Justpassingthru » iLike » http://reverbnation.com/justpassingthru » Join e-list for a FREE song Download » http://myspace.com/justpassingthru » MySpace » http://justpassingthru.net » Official Web Site » http://indieheaven.com/artists/justpassingthru » IndieHeaven

This is absolute correct. Like everything else to be successful you have to work at it. I'm working on my 20 CD release right now and I can say without a doubt other than the first 3 (which were tapes back then) the 16 after have all been “finish line” for me. I did do promotion and performing and I did make some money.

What I was finding was that all that promotion and performing was taking away for the creative process. I had less time to write and work on my new songs and although I did enjoy the performing I did not like the promoting. In fact the promoting/performing made me so busy that my music was suffering and the whole process had got me to the point that I wanted to quit altogether.

So I sat down one day and thought - What's the real reason why I make music.

Is it to become famous?

Is it to make money?

Is it to be discovered?

nope, nope, nope

Don't get me wrong all those things would be nice, but none of those were the real reason.

The real reason was because I love making music. So that's what I have concentrated on and it has been fantastic!!! What I found out after a 2 or 3 years of taking this approach was that I was much happier and began to realize this is what I wanted all along, to make music. Somehow I had listen to people tell me what I should do with my music and what I had to do to be able to call myself a success and that definition of success became my goal and it came very close to causing me to give up music forever. I have no regents for choosing this path nor do I think it's wrong to do it any other way. Music is a wonderful thing and everyone should have there own approach to it. This is what work for me and I know I'll continue to make music for as long as it's physically possible. You can call me "the most prolific unknown songwriter/singer in Canada" and I'm fine and every happy with that. Just don't tell anyone... Cheers

In reference to your statement:

"For those types, I'd say the average income (through my one little store) was $5000. (And 50 of them earned over $100,000 each.)"

How long did that take? My CD came out on June 13th. Shortly there after I got it over to CD Baby. I'm one of those, "the gun goes off" people. I promote this CD non-stop everyday.... I get discouraged though, but I keep trying to remind myself it's been only 3 months. Do you know of a time-frame when stuff really starts happening?

Thanks Derek for what you have done for new artist!!!

Nick www.NickLongoMusic.com

DEREK you recently sent me a check for cds sold on a small scale im not computer savy but have money to invest in ads what is your easiest and best staight forward method of getting people to my style f music not playing out thanks

christian

Hi Derek,

I hope that things go well with you, young Skywalker. This was a timely, gentle, but sobering, almost magical kick in the pants.

Recovering from a small fire in the studio. I am, however, slowly writing a batch of songs more becoming an old road dog like me. Not safer. Just better. Brushing up on software and the attendant learning curve ( can't afford the Neve, Ampex machines etc. I was used to in the old days). Now that I have a stable rig, and digital editing is a great thing, I am ready to concentrate less on the I T and more on the music and a subsequent marketing plan. Any advice you've come across that would help a Dad with a day gig schedule some limited touring? After all these years both on and off the music scene I hope I can finally accomplish enough to merit being one of your demi-sages that helps those aspiring.

I have never written you before, but it did not seem right to neglect thanking you for this and the wonderful company you just married off. I feel like I know you. Maybe it is just that we chewed some of the same tour dirt or it could be that your principles and caring shine through your public endeavors.

Cheers,

Gregg Outlaw

Thanks Derek! Mine's a starting line. I got a little false start out of the blocks, but it's definitely not too late to begin the race.   Pete Surdoval

Amen Brother! Now that my "New Girl" EP is finished, I'm just starting to see the abundance of opportunities that exist to connect with others through my music. I was just thinking about that this morning-the fact that it's a beginning vs. an end-and I was really glad I did the 5-song EP as a kind of dress rehearsal marketing-wise for the full album that's still to come!

And on a side note, as an independent musician, one can get quiet consumed with oneself doing just what Derek said: "spending hours a day pushing, promoting, selling, striving.etc.". After years of going after what's "out there for me."

I recently paused and said "Hey, wait a minute. For a long time, I've been asking a lot of people to do a lot of things for me: 'Play my record, take my picture, do my graphics, by my CD, book my band. please!!...'"

I decided it was due time to return the karmic favor by offering help-whether with publicity or setting up a MySpace, etc., even dog-sitting!-for friends and/or fellow musicians, on behalf of those who have been kind enough to lend me a hand through the years. It feels good. And I'm OFF!



Thank YOU Derek for keeping us in the opportunity loop and for giving us much-needed reminders of our potential.

Sincerely,

Rebecca Sayre http://www.myspace.com/rebeccasayre http://www.rebeccasayre.com

This is a nice, sensible 'E'ditorial Mr. D. I love it when anyone uses the word 'entitlement' due to I think this is a caucasoidal epidemic in so many areas of our society.

JH

Hey Derek ...thanks for the blog post message

This describes me pretty good...about being at the finish line... although I have made more than 20 bucks from CDBaby.

I know I have a good product.. .most people like my CD and it's not going to wear out soon....

It has some classic back up on it.... .However you are right about the wrong.....thinking.

That is where the thanks comes in....I downloaded your pdf on "How to call attention to your music" That is a super document thanks so much... I got it at www.sive.rs Endless good ideas

Keep up the great work... and I will be letting others know about it too...

Take Care Ron www.cdbaby.com/ronparks

Yes I agree with your article.That's exactly what happened to my cd's,i dont know really know how to promote it without going broke ..sam

Hi Derek; Our Last record doubled it's predecessor sold $500 so far and an actress is using 1 of our songs to fan dance to on MTV's MADE show. Burlesque is big and we're doin' it !

What do you suggest we do to exploit this event (MTV)?

All the Love.

Scat

thanks for the reminder Derek, my third record is almost finished and since I'm still selling my last two on cdbaby all over the world, my new record will be really fun to promote...not to mention that's its by far my best yet!!!!

love, courtney

Hi Derek,   Thank you for assisting the Independent artist, in his/her plight to generate attention and recognition, by exposing their creative and original music to the general public. Without you, none of this would have ever transpired.   Most assuredly, it has been a mutually beneficial ordeal, all in all. I also wish you further success, since you are definately a pioneer in this field and one of the few success stories in existence today, when most others have failed at such a venture.   We shall have approximately an album of material per month, available for submission to your firm.   Kindly accept my sincerest regards.   Stay well. Staten Island Johnny ATRAX music co.

Hey Mr. Sivers, This is a great blog....but then again I'm a devout Sivers fan...I can't express how much I appreciate what you've done for us indies...that said...I have 2 CDs on CDBABY. I put them both on in March of this year, doing the digital thing too and I've earned close to $100 for both cds combined. I'm hustling...sold somewhere between 450 to 500 CDs in face to face situations, but can't get folks to buy on line. We sell more cds after performances than anything. Question #1- Approximately how long does it take before cds start selling on the Baby

#2-When are you going to start the next company....gigbaby???? LOL There is no one in this business I would trust more than you at this point. I've put out an add on Craigs list for booking agents and I have a few bites, but waiting to see what you come through with. Meanwhile, keep yourself safe, keep rockin' JaVonne Armstrong, Stoney Mae

Finish line.

Starting line! Starting line!

Thanks again, Derek

This is the point. You sent me an offer to be one of the six people for coaching. Thank you! You had us submit a reason why we should be the candidate.

Many of us are totally willing to spend time and resources making sure people know we exist.

The question is doing what.

I feel flooded with internet sights, you-tube, myspace, song contests, TAXI, song pluggers, lists of indie radio stations, promoters, news-paper ad opportunities, promotional and paid performances, producers looking for songs, the "Fox Pool" TV back ground music, advertising etc. etc.

I want CD Baby to be the starting line but I'm not sure how to proceed in a systmatic way and not just randomly spin my wheels. (like I have been!)

Thanks for all you do.

Wayne Richards Southern Nights http://myspace.com/waynerichardssouthernnights

Thanks a million for that question. I needed that!!!!!!

Derek thanks for the information what is the best thing to do to get some big sales

thanks

larry dane

Derek I fell on the finish line effort only because I had a full time job and my responsibilities were huge.

I sold the majority of my cds at work and at live shows when I did perform. I perform very little prior to 2006. From 2007 til date I perform mostly at senior communities. The other performances in coffee houses enabled me to sell more cds at the show.

Most of my cds on CDBABY were sold from word of mouth and customers of CDBABY. I did not make the money I would like to have made on CDBABY.

I still tell people where the music can be found. So, even though I am at the finish line that was not by choice.

I have more shows at the senior communities, so when I sell a cd it's with a person that work at the community. All of my cds have sold now that I work at full time as a entertainer.

After saying all of the above I left the finish line, but my pace is slower than most musicians. I am doing more of a fast walk.

Thanks I look forward to the next e-mail. Paula

The BIGGEST problem I've found is when a project is considered the starting line for some members of the group, and the finishing line for others.

The starting line members end up doing all of the promotion, leg work, financing, networking and interaction with reviewers etc., while the rest just come along for the ride.

Kind of a reminder of the "When is it time to quit your band?" discussion.

Darrell

Da Phatfunk Clique - Funky jazz violin to elevate the mood

www.phatfunk.com

www.myspace.com/phatfunk

Hi Derek

I read your e-mail blog and wanted to comment on just how accurate it is.

I fit perfectly into the "Finish Line" category, even to the amount of sales being $20.00 ,and my CD has been out for a little over a year. I've never done an "Album Release Concert" mostly because it would be just too costly for me (I paid the musicians well for the sessions, they are top notch players, and, like me, all working steady) and scheduling all those players would be nearly impossible (excuses excuses) but you are right on the money about it being "I'm done with that".

I spent the last year paying off the manufacturing cost, and now I'm done with that too, and aiming at the next project.

You see, the group I have worked with the longest, and that falls into the category "Starting Line" Is the Irish folk group "Colcannon" and we have released 7 CDs, and promoted them ourselves, so I have an understanding of what I could or should be doing, but put most of my energy into live performing, which is how I make a living. Colcannon is an existing touring group and generally we are paid and treated like professionals, and most of our sales are at concerts, so pushing new releases is kind of built into the business.

I've been able to sell my CD at Colcannon concerts even though it is very different, because our fans have heard other music that I have written, liked it, and are willing to take a chance on something different, and in some cases they already have all our other albums.

So you see, for me, my CD was a side project, and therefore I haven't put a lot of money and or energy into promoting it, and though I'm slightly embarrassed to admit it, you are also right on the money about basking in the compliments of the friends who I have given free CDs.

So thanks for your insights, I'm thinking, maybe the next side project should be a trio, and therefore more economically feasible for live performance.

Thanks again for everything you do.

Mike Fitzmaurice

This is very interesting, this analysis. For me, as you may know, I do a little of both..

But what's interesting is that for most great artists of the last golden age, (you know the 60s and 70s when music would not only sell a lot but used to actually change the world -- neither these things happen anymore), those artists: john lennon, jimi, jim, janis, etc... the album would definitely be the finishing line reflecting the era, the personal era, also the macrocosmic era it was written and recorded in, because the art, the expression, you felt at that particular moment in time is OVER...

music came out quickly then, very soon after it was written...

a very important ingredient in a successful record because the cosmos have everything to do with real music..

not everyone knew that felix from the rascals wrote People Got To Be Free for bobby kennedy, but they KNEW... because it was released very quickly, so they knew on a subconscious level.

someone who goes to a songwriting class, does a record, then spends every waking hour promoting it, will never sell a lot of copies, AND make an impression because that is not a REAL ARTIST.. you are chosen as a vehicle, by an energy (be it god or the devil or somewhere in between)

you really cannot have it both ways derek! (but I try!)..

anyway very interesting -

you must smoke a lot of stuff to come up with this, but smoke a little more and think about what i'm saying.

love ya.. Roxanne Fontana

Well, I can't say all my hyperactivity has amounted to that much so far (it's only been about 3 months since release), but the above paragraph certainly describes my life since June, and I've definitely earned more than $20 lol. it's more on the order of $600 so far, and I continue to promote, though I'm slightly less driven now, simply because my number of students has increased now with school being back in session. I've moved onto trying to get the album to a number of radio stations. I have garnered a number of nice reviews for all my efforts, some online, only one in a local arts paper to date (albeit an absolute rave!). I do enjoy your articles and advice, so please keep it up! thanks, Kari http://www.karitieger.com http://www.myspace.com/karitieger

**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)

what can i say about your observation?

you do know, but we all have an opinion about the maddness of music. there was a time when to be a player in the music business was special.

my problem is that everyone in the digital age thinks they are special derek.

with the technology brought the masses in on a special gifted side of  music making.

there are just to many.

we all get lost in the hoards of so called recording artists.but that is just my opinion.

when all the artists wished for indy-pendence from the big companys they as little richard said "the grass is always greener on the other side but just as hard to cut".

they found out that self promotion has a price! a big price tag!

which most indy artists cant afford.

ok you provided a service but not a record company promotional machine and you did fine out of all your hard work and all power to you.

but again,there was no route to the big arena unless the indy artist slogs his way with a fist full of dollars.

and like the old saying earning it night after night on the road.

then when and if you get lucky they all go with the big machine anyway.

so if the physical product doesnt sell what else do we have streaming?

a load of nonsense but at least people hear your music i guess.

just my opinion as well.

where it all ends up i dont know anymore.

but  the music busi-messis in a sad state.

chico rey/bass player/recording artist

I view my albums (old school term, sorry) as both the start and the finish line. It takes a lot to put a record together. I'm curently wrestling with technical issues while I put together my new material and you may see it sometime next year or 2030, depending on how things go. Once the record is done, it's time to do the promotions, which is hit and miss for me. I don't have deep pockets so hiring a publicist or some other hired gun isn't an option. Therefore, I have to go with the $20 per year option. I will say that the downloads that I have sold through CD baby are much more frequent than the CD sales. This may be due to the market changing. For me, I've done much better online. Would I like to do better? Sure! Who Wouldn't? I'm not sure I can use this as a measure of success, however. The music comes out of nowhere. Before I recorded the songs, they didn't exist in the physical world. Now they're out in the open for everyone to enjoy and I recieve lots of nice comments about the music. I'm not doing this to make a living, so I think it doesn't matter how much I sell. Chris Nelson

It is both a starting line and a finish line. In order to finish you have to start and be sure you finish!

My album(s) is/are a starting line, although been running for a long time the finish line is still(Good Lord willing) far ahead!

I always(in faith) felt I would be an over-night sucess it's just been a long night! Music is a never-ending learning process no one but The Lord knows it all, but you can't get there(to the finish line) unless you go through it(the race).

God Bless and keep running toward God!

JimmYSixStrinGtm

http://cdbaby.com/all/jimmysixstring

Hello Derek, Just wanted to share some thoughts and ideas with you. My name is Christopher and I am writing on behalf of my wife Jeanette (Kiskadee). Actually we met a few years ago in London when you were touring Europe. Remember the loud bar we were all in and then we all moved to the quiet chinese restaurant? Anyway, Kiskadee was the partially sighted girl with the braids. I am sure you won't remember.

Anyway, we really admire the difference you are making for artists. You have made your mark already and are making a bigger and bigger one. I like the ideas you are sending around. The coaching servicew we look forward to. Also the one where others can help do the more mundane work is great. That would enable us to spend much more time on creative work.

Jeanette and I too are always ahead of our time when it comes to vision. Only just over a year ago we emailed cdbaby about getting a large amount of songs on itunes as digital only but at the time they had no solution. A year later now, and it is an option. For us, it is a very important option. We created two companies Minor2Major and EthicalMusic. Minor2Major is all about custom named greetings, so if you imagine we have some 15,000 audio files, that is alot. We took the most popular 1000 and signed them up for digital only at CDBaby and think it will prove very popular. It better be after hundreds and hundreds of hours of studio work!! :)

The other organisation (which is in its infancy still) is called EthicalMusic and I think you might want to be aware of it. Basically, we want to create a movement, not a world music movement but something new and which incorporates new technologies. We want it to become the "organic foods" of the music industry so that people are proud of saying "I support Ethical Music". We hope to use Facebook and other things to create the movement from the grassroots. Too much music is based on visual image and age. Not enough is based on the music and on the artist themself.

As you know, music is probably the most inspiring tool available to us and those who are inspiring deserve to be heard. For many it is their calling in life and they have to battle with old world corrupt music industries. Essentially this is what we envision:

Ethical Music sources and promotes unrecognized, talented, inspirational musicians and other artists from around the globe who would otherwise be overlooked by the conventional music industry. Through innovative technologies and strategies Ethical Music has created a revolutionary model, which empowers artists to earn a living through their art. We hope to develope an internationally well-renowned mainstream brand, we aim to create new markets for the artists and exploit existing ones. Moreover, through its worldwide educational and creative awareness programs to schools and colleges, EM will provide a social and financial benefit to the artists and their communities.

Imagine finding those gems of musicians who sell through CDBaby and featuring their life stories. Then it is about more than the music. It is the whole story. You should hear Kiskadee's story. Anyway, if any of what I have written creates a spark, do let us know.

Well, hope you had time to read this Derek. We will look out for other new initiatives!

Take care, Christopher and Jeanette (Kiskadee)

Thank you for this information, this is a very valuable question.I am putting together some new music, but I want the album cover to be more marketable than the first one.

you are totally correct. when we released our album, it was the starting line for me. i got us on 8 FM stations, a ton of podcasts and in regular rotation on a number of radio stations, plus i promoted it on every forum i could find. but for the other 4 guys it was the finish line. they stopped coming to practices and were extremely lazy. i would spend hours entering our music into competitions and send them the links and they were so lazy they wouldn't even go cast a single vote for our song. quite frustrating.

-mark A Simple Complex

The release of my album is definitely a starting line. I want to do whatever I can to get it out there. I really feel that this is where the real work begins that is why I am reaching out to do whatever I can to maximize getting it out there.

Thanks

Richard

Hi Derek, This is to embarrassing to post publicly but all 4 albums and 1 single has started with an end :-) Suzanne

I have 2 records out, & I'm still going to release at least 2 more. So, I hope this is the ''starting line''! As far as hard work, I produced, wrote, sang, & played guitar on 2 records of my own, & wrote, performed, & produced an album for a new band ''Tourmaline S.D.''

As much as I would love to be one of those networking, self promoting, salesmen - type guy . . . . I'm simply not that kind of person. I guess I am somewhat introverted. I still believe a vouch from someone, is more valid than self-promotion.

I paid $5000 on each record to a friend who was in a famous band, to help me get some publicity. He even got a publicist to writ a review. I don't think anyone read it though! My total earnings for both records . . . . about $150.00.

I started recording my songs two years ago, now I am flat broke.

Sincerely, Erik (L A M M Y a.k.a. Mr. True)

Another point in the line, the long and winding road, Hey now, hey now,

Don't Dream It's Over!

Derek; Thanks again for this helpful article.

Bruce Maier Publisher/ http://damngoodtunes.com

My album is a finishing line. I have never made money and have repeatedly spent more than $2000 a year trying to make it. I quit. I have any album ready to send but I stoppedbye and may God bless, Wayne Manby

Brilliant!

Derek  good to hear from you again.  I actually DO have another CD that will be coming your way as soon as I finish packaging it.  The cover is all that is left to create.  It is actually an album I made with my Dad that I have had digitized and formatted and is now a CD.  This part is my own production.  The original Mr Moon Over Texas is actually my preferred version,  (also on "Generations")  done the original western swing style.  It also features Herb with 6 instrumentals sprinled throughout which makes for a very listenalbe CD.   It is called REMINGTON COUNTRY  featuring father and son on one album.  Just to let you know.  I perform live professionally here in my area all the time.  Never had any difficulty acquiring gigs whether it features my songs or everyone elses.  Best Westerns, VFW's,  local festivals, restaurants, and coffee houses all use me on a regular basis whether it is a one man band,  or just acoustic  or a full blown band of local musicians.  It sounds like I do   lot of bragging  but I usually do not..   I let my performance speak for itself.  We only go around once,   I love performing to small audiences and large, and at 60 years of age I see no end in sight.  So I will keep doing this as long as someone is willing to pay a reasonable wage and I have listeners.  Nothing is free  except our choices.  My circle is still expanding here in Ruidoso area ie. southeast New Mexico but of course I keep my prices down to where most people can afford me.  Honestly, Derek,  although my CD's are pretty good,  they do not reflect how I have grown musically recently.  It IS time for Mark to record some thing new,  and I will.  I promise.  "Generations"  cost $17,500 to produce.  I do not think I personally can spend that much on my next one but it will happen.  I'll see Dad in Houston next month,  the first time in years,  After Ike, he is still digging out.   I know you are considering artists for major label production, so I want you to know that this independent performer is a real performer that people come back to hear again and again.  You can call Cindy Olson of Sight and Sounds Productions in Austin, Texas     She has been booking me for years.   If you got this far, thanks for reading.  Mark

What I've done to promote my new cd THINK., now up at CDBABY, is to run a small ad in my local music magazine, Metronome, here in Massachusetts. I've also got myself onto the iMeems site and am harassing and annoying my friends and contacts on Youtube as well as Eons.com.

Last cd, six years ago, I kind of quit after I finished the cd and nobody bought it. Whether or not anyone buys this one, it will not be for the lack of trying on my part for guerilla promotion.

I also have a six-year-old copy of the Indie Bible that I've been using to get college radio call letters from and have just been googling them that way with emails. I have actually had some success and have been promised some airplay at a few of them, out of a couple of hundred.

I'm trying to get it heard before the upcoming elections as it is mostly politically oriented music.

So, to use your phrase, I'm now at the "starting line" and will keep "running" to the best of my ability 'till I get to "the end" where, hopefully, there'll be some nice checks from CDBABY waiting!

Thanks for your continued support of indie musicians-J.R. Wilbur.

Okay, so my record is in the former category...I definitely viewed it as a starting line. I treated it as such...I promoted it online and outside of that as much as possible (and as much as my pocketbook would allow), in every way I could think of. I think it's a good record, too...I really do. BUT, my income from the record from CD Baby did not even approach $5000. Several hundred dollars at best. I mean, our band has not had the means to tour relentlessly...Maybe that's where we're deficient. But it seems to me that $5000 can't possibly be the true average. I'd bet most people are making less.

Recently I traveled to France (vacation and biz) in August to meet with a booking agent I met at Midem 06 when I took my album and press kit to 51 meetings in 4 1/2 days.

I returned early Sept., and am pleased to mention he has proposed a cross-country tour in France of 20 shows in 30 days for June 2009, with Radio and TV, etc. I accepted the terms.

In association with booking co. and my music, all expenses for us (me and engineer) are paid for by sponsors.

It doesn't do what I need to happen for my music with performances here, however it does help to legitimize my continued efforts.

So I returned and pushed this reality on the booking agents here, do they bite (?) … not really.

Sincerely,

Evan Wish www.evanwish.com

Album - “Lullaby of Love” Contemporary Classical/New Age

Evan Wish: A description of the artists’ music. Beautiful, powerful Contemporary Classical Instrumental Piano performances by a seasoned pianist, who effortlessly embraces romance, love and hope, while pushing the music's positive influence on the listener to new heights. 

Peter Granet: Peter Granet: Grammy Nominated Engineer Producer/Engineer on Lullaby of Love

Born and raised in New York City, Granet earned his B.A. at Queens College. His music career began in earnest with stints at Dick Charles recording Services and National Recording in New York. While at National, Mr. Granet worked with Jazz Greats Duke Ellington, Chico Hamilton and The Modern Jazz Quartet.

Later on in his career, while a staff engineer at famed Wally Heider Recording in Hollywood, he recorded the Grammy nominated "Southern Comfort" album for the jazz-funk group The Crusaders. Peter was nominated for a Grammy for his work on the album. Recorded and mixed the double platinum "Destiny" album last of the Jackson's album prior to Michael’s solo career.

Later he would join forces with world famous composer Lalo Schifrin to record with Dizzy Gillespie's and Lalo Schifrin himself.

On the rock side of his career Mr. Granet recorded albums with Jackson Brown, Linda Ronstadt, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Ravi Shankar and George Harrison as well as recording and mixing George Harrison's single "Bangladesh". Van Morrison, Eddie Rabbitt and “Bad Finger” to mention just a few also sought after his talents. 

Semi-retired, Mr. Granet continues to work with Lalo Schifrin and Evan Wish, a modern composer/concert pianist who writes and performs brilliant contemporary classical and new age pieces.

I have been selling my albums using the cdbaby site for music samples,then later following up in one on one sale with customer,this is working for me.. I have sold around 650 copies so far...I guess it is the starting line approach ?

MIGHT BE UNCOOL It was the finish line, and onto the next. Which is the way it IS for a real artist.

The majority of bands/individuals love the "idea" of a successful product, but that's not the same as actually "working" towards a successful product. The media reinforces the myth of, 'The overnight success "story"/being "born" that way' because it helps sell papers/ TV shows by reinforcing what people want to hear: namely, that this new star has succeeded (by comparison) because they got "lucky" or because they are "supernatural." Not everyone wants to labor and learn how to shine brightly.

Ultimately, people have to confront themselves. Are you working at it, or are you playing at it? Is it a hobby or is it a business? Anyone can create a product but empirically, does your product hold up in the marketplace? Do perfect strangers buy it? The measure is in the numbers, derived from consistent, directed efforts. This is the non-romantic part.

Take travel for example. For me, the romance of being out on the road wore off when I'd start waking up in hotel rooms that look alike, and had no idea what city I was in, let alone what time zone it was. But I knew I'd get to perform- that's the good stuff- and that's what kept me going. What kept me going was learning every day, and asking, 'What is it that I can do better?' For me, this was the real, "Starting line."

James Wallace http://www.jameswallace.net

My experience: the records i released through a visible, profitable record company (Free Country) continue to sell in small numbers, due to the fact that, still, record companies specialize in SELLING record, and they have an interest in doing so. The cds that were done through a small (broke) company or through my website NEVER sell. Now my music is not very commercial...but I think the hard reality here is that the odds of success are just as small online as they were 30 years ago off-line. It doesn't mean you shouldn't try. But the internet "revolution" has not made me any money...no, it has cost me money. I spent around $1000 on a new website for Passing Train and have sold about $250 worth of product NONE of which came from online sales. Are you feeling me, friends? People can hear my music on myspace, which is great. But no sales! What does it all mean?

joel harrison

Thank you for this kick in the butt.

Since then, I paid musicSUBMIT to send 400 epk, modified a little bit my website and prepare to home made video to be post on youtube and elsewhere. Let's see what comes next !

Hope you are having a nice week.

Florian

These things don't come so easy!

The highs are so high and the lows are low. But the fact remaining I am a musician and will always be till the day I expire. I haven't sold many CD's but I can still feel myself evolving even at my age.

These things don't come so easy!

The highs are so high and the lows are low. But the fact remaining I am a musician and will always be till the day I expire. I haven't sold mant CD's but can still feel myself evolving even at my age.

OK ... perhaps one lesson might be ... write useful songs; perhaps ones that are sharing what you've learned in life, or what you might be pondering or grappling with; useful, perhaps, in that they might help the listener in some way, i.e., perhaps to experience what you are sharing ... the listener experiencing moments of feeling, perhaps ... ones not otherwise normally on offer, in their own day.

Yes, then share the song(s). Songs bear fruit, or not, in the listening process; like stories do ... or not ... as well.

For anyone reading the comments here, have a listen to these songs if you like ... that's what they're there for ... the listening (it was a fun project too):

http://soundcloud.com/cd-m-1/sets/soul-cd-project-song-sketches/s-TZFSa

Perhaps one day we'll do something more with them; for now, though, the project made for a great gift, as intended.

Of course, few will ever read these notes; the original article is an older one; all the comments, made within a few weeks of its posting, but for one; but that's OK.

All the best ...

With "Album" in the title, no wonder all the comments are about music. More literal, this time, than casting about for the implication of the metaphor.

As for a website (blog site) to promote your band, Derek's line applies, "it is possible to get a few (hits) without doing anything at all. As with your music, I suppose, your blog is not for "everyone." In my case there are only a few blogs I am a fan of and return to, again and again. I just don't have the time or inclination to look at "everything" out there.

Although, to be sure, I do browse a little bit.

Oh, and I'm surely a fan of Derek's blog.

Ever timely, always appreciated. Great post.

Success is never owned.
It's rented,
& the rent is due every day.