Assume nobody is going to help you

No one is going to help and that fine.

Most importantly thats to be expected.

Make it happen for yourself.

Like buying your first car with your own money.

If you KNOW this, you'll work harder and appreciate it more.

YOU re trying to make YOU succeed.

So do it!

I've always been a self starter, self taught in everything, etc. So I would find it not encouraging exactly, but I'd see it as an opportunity to rise to the challenge... again.

I have encountered mostly resistance throughout my musical career. But I am just persistent, stubborn, sick and twisted enough to use it as fuel for my madness.

it's all up to me, so i'm with you on this. My success is dependent on my choices and how much I want to give. It would be easy to have someone help you, but would that make you a better musician, performer, etc? Probably not.

I think it lights a fire under my ass! At first I may feel a little discouraged, then rebellion kicks in. Kind of a "If you won't help me, I'll do it my damn self" attitude.

As a music consultant, all I can do is listen to the artists, offer a little guidance, but ultimately, it will be up to the musician to make their career happen!

At first it feels discouraging, but once I'm over the self pity & "poor me" conversation, there's a sense of freedom in knowing that it's all up to me really. This puts me into action & really forces me to get clear about "what I really want", especially 'cause "nobody will help"

I used to get depressed at that thought but now I am not only ok with it, but I think it is one of the rules in life which you have to learn, accept and then move on with it in a proactive way (as Stephen Covey mentions!)

I think your response was real and realistic. For those who had already come to the same answer, it would be validating and encouraging. For those who had not, it would seem harsh and discouraging. I think it is great advice personally.

To quote GI Joe, "knowing is half the battle." I think once you acknowledge that no one is really itching to help, you're empowered.

That's encouraging on its own. Combine it with the reality that once you build it from the ground up and make it work, then you really can thrive (quite happily) without (insert whatever you think would be helpful: agent, investor, label)...

True enough, however, as the saying goes, "no man is an island."

It takes heart, guts and soul (and a boatload of talent) to dig deep and create something remarkable. Only then, with a generous unselfish attitude, will people support you and begin to lift you up.

People will help you if you believe in yourself first. They will see it and believe and want to be a part of it.

There are no shortcuts - I've spent 20 years trying all of them...

Hey Derek,

I've always been very much a "hands on, do-it-myself" kinda guy in most (if not all areas) of my life. Sometimes this has been detrimental to my progress but most times it means that stuff gets done. I think a small part of me used to hope that I would catch a big break and struggled a little with how unfair life can be. BUT, once I got over that and realised that my life and career are my problem and nobody else's I was better able to pull up my socks and take challenges head on.

Too often we can find ourselves floundering in a whirlpool of circumstance waiting for someone to rescue us when all we need is a perspective adjustment. (Having said that I do acknowledge that sometimes ones arms and legs simply aren't strong enough to swim one to safety)

So for me, I find it encouraging :)

The few musicians that get help are not challenged and therefore write really bad songs that nobody remembers.. Music is inside the heart. A real musician gives their music from the heart and asks for NOTHING in return.

This should be common knowledge by now, and would just confirm what I already know (and anyone who follows people like Bob Baker).

Musicians need to build and control their own following of fans. An email list is great for that with a signup form on their webpage. Also don't just focus on selling cds/mp3s, gigs and chasing labels. Sell 'behind the scenes' access to your band online, sell music lessons, use affiliate programs - ie. multiple revenue streams.

I think this is a sort of American cowboy right-wing view of society. Many of the greatest accomplishments in history were completed by teams of people. Man on the moon, Golden Gate Bridge, Great Wall of China, the Pyramids, the Constitution, the iPod, 55,000+ high schools all teaching classes today.

But building trust so that others will work with you... I agree that's something each person has to commit to on their own.

Your talent has to speak for itself. To make it in this business, you need the courage and passion to work at your craft every day, and the reality is that no one is going to believe in your music as much as you. So if you believe in your talent, go for it!

That actually encouraged me to do what i'm doing today. At the beginning I took it as "I have a great product, why don't we get any help". I was able to flip the coin and then realize that we have to invest first. I believe we have to invest in ourselves (DYI) first, before someone else invest in you.

I find it encouraging. It makes sense, rudimentary business sense and realism. Growing any business takes hard work and a lot of vision, and challenging markets take all that and more.

yep. helping yourself. leveraging your previous work. Like Joe...

http://concertsinyourhome.com/blog

Best,

Fran

I think it's important for every person in every background to consider this thought:

"No one is coming."

As depressing as this sounds at the outset, I find it empowering because it is the truth. While it would be lovely to have someone come and shower us with money and opportunities, that's not the way the world works.

If you really take that thought in, and digest it, your response will make the difference in your career.

When we're NOT expecting someone to take over the reins, only then can we understand that we are the only ones who can make anything happen. It's up to us to create the energy and the heat for our career, which in turn will create those opportunities that we seek.

Investors and agents are more interested in how you handle your BUSINESS, and they're mostly interested in how they're going to get a return on their investment. If you're not already creating $500,000 worth of excitement for your music, why should they invest in you?

It's easy to assume that you'll make the big moves AFTER you get the investors, but if you're not already making $500,000 moves and decisions now (in time and effort), how can you expect to be taken seriously??

"No one is coming."

So what are you gonna do about that?

Ok, just for the record at $5000.00 a month income agents are still not breaking down the door, experience tells me. I know you said that as sort of a "at the least" statement, Derek. If you are the personality type (which you are, Derek) that likes a challenge and just as you said "likes to be in control" then you are not discouraged and infact, are probably motivated by that statement. My experience has been that most musicians are not of that personality type. Most I deal with are insecure and would see that statement as a discouragement. That's where managers or able folks that are passionate about your music come in. That statement does not discourage me, either. It makes me say, "Now listen, by God, someone is making a living at this thing called music, Brett Mitchell & the giant GHOST is worthy, I will make it happen somehow." The problem here presents itself: where do I find that person to believe in my music? THAT, MY MUSICIAN FRIEND, IS YOUR QUEST IN LIFE - not so much to find a manager or agent but to find SOMEONE passionate enough about your music to help you. Keep your eyes open. Janager, 4BrettMitchell

Okay, you mavericks! I'll admit to the other side. It makes me feel incredibly alone and a little like I have to move a mountain with a teaspoon. I become overwhelmed and discouraged. I wanted to believe that people would hear what I'm doing, consider it special, and get on the bandwagon. But since I have discovered what Derek has succinctly put here, I have discovered the need to stay narrow in my vision...what can I do right now to make positive strides in my mission? And then do that. That may mean to make a plan, write an email, mail posters, whatever. If I pan back too far I see too much and it overwhelms me.

Sounds like I'm the only one like this. I know the "right" answer is that it lights a defiant fire in me to capture the world myself, but it just takes the wind out of my sails. If I take one thing at a time I can handle it.

When you finally allow yourself to believe that no one else is going to help you it is extremely liberating. And when help is offered, it is a nice surprise.

Get yourself into the mindset that people will offer help when you're ready to be offered it.

Your Question: Nobody’s going to help you. Does that encourage you or discourage you?

My answer: It depends.

As far as the music business, I literally gave up on asking for their help a decade ago, as it became clear that the artist I admired called the shots. Total artistic control has always been important to what I do, and having the internet has done nothing but solidify what I've been saying to my friends for a decade, that in order to truly be successful, we had to do it ourselves. In that sense, its empowering.


Outside of music, its a different story. I would hate to be alone and have no help if say, a disaster strikes. If my town was flooded, or if I was in a car accident, I would want help on those occassions, as having no help can literally kill you.

My dad used to say "you can always tell the quality of an organization by the help it gives to it members in need", churches and communties tend to be pretty good about this, businesses do not, so what does that say?

I figured out a long, long time ago that nobody is going to help me, except other musicians/artists. If I needed other people to help me I would've "quit" years ago. What motivates me is my passion and the responses I get from regular ordinary people who have no hidden agenda and tell me my music or art moves them. It's a genuine and inspiring feeling that constantly reminds me to continue trying to get it out there. Then there is Derek...thank you.

Acutally I have an answer for this (How can I find a great/major booking agent?

And how can I find an investor? I need someone to invest $500,000 into my band for radio, touring, recording, videos, PR, payola, etc.)

My answer: Get yourself to the point where you need either....

If you want radio airply try radiodirectx.com they have lots of services & I have been very happy with them. It does cost & you have to send all your own promo packages to the stations, I'm being played all over Europe & Australia. One disc jockey was going to help me get disribution in Europe & I was the featured artist on his station.

I think it's important to remember that you have to be the one that makes it happen. And therefore it's partly inspiring to hear that

BUT, it is also important to involve other people working with you. I have seen way too many artists who spend so much time figuring out how to promote their album that they quit writing and practicing altogether.

It's really easy to waste hours adding friends to myspace, researching venues, trolling through possible gigs, booking gigs, etc. Having at least one other person to help with this sort of thing is essential if you want to maintain your creativity (which presumably is why you do all this promoting anyway)

It doesn't mean it has to be the agent at William Morris, but involving a community in the promotion of an artist is essential if you want to sell more than 20 cd's a year. You can involve your friends, interns, whomever.

You CAN do it yourself, but getting some help to do it will be far more likely to achieve success.

That said, the big question is, how do you find useful, reliable help that doesn't cost a fortune?

When I decided to start my business promoting independent musicians earlier this year I did ask for help from others, on more of an advice basis. However, I knew I needed to move it ahead on my own with trust and confidence that it was the right direction. I think people are more likely to give when not being asked, if they see potential in what one is doing. Being told it is up to me gives me some sense of freedom, and the beauty and scary part is that there are no strings attached.

Hi Derek...I feel much like you do.When you claim the title of The King...you know no one is going to help you.As a matter of fact I get so much disdain and hate simply for the title I use.Musicians would rather starve than play for me.They say...aw you want to be a star...like I shouldn't want this and If I simply wanted to sing in bars to the same 4 or 5 fat chicks every night we could do something? I basically do not expect any help in the world of mud because humans are like crabs. If you try to get out of the barrel the other crabs pull you back down and if you keep trying they will kill you.I live my life like a warrior always ready to crush a crab when I come across one.One must come to use the fact that no one will help them as motivation to do more.To kill em with success.You have helped me tremendously Derek and your posts help me. To "rub elbows" with you is an honor.I do have a few questions for you and perhaps one day you will give me a few moments of your time to ask them.

The fact that you may not receive any help, does make you question your commitment to your art. I am a musician, and I have given my life to it, as I have given my life to my children and other loved ones. Music is one of my 'loved ones'. Whatever else happens with it, I am committed to it for my lifetime.

One thing your wrong on is that people do still invest in music. I just landed 2 artists investments for their projects.

Me on the other hand wouldn't allow someone to invest in my dream ever again and get a percentage of my worth. I have been doing it too long on my own now and have sold way too many records (over 100,000) to not know my value.

Self motivation is the key and working hard every single day. People call me the hardest working man in the Bay Area, but I won't stop until I am known as the hardest working man IN MUSIC.

Show booking is easy. You just network your way onto a show as the opening act and give the BEST performance. You outshine the headliner and the owner will bring you back for cash next go around. Remember in bars, in between each song tell the crowd to order a drink and tip the bartender. Trust Me.

"L"

It took me a while to realise that my partner & I would have to do everything ourselves. It certainly didn't discourage me, but it is tough & leaves less time for making music!

And it's eventually become second nature. I understand what needs to be done and also know the value of different tasks. We're now at the point where we are able to outsource some of the work. We've built up enough systems that it is easy to hire people to do the work, and also to put a monetary value on it.

I think doing things myself has given me a much better understanding of how to run my career like a business, and am actually rather glad that I was forced into taking this route! :-)

The thing I like about this is that it switches thinking from "If only..." to "What if...". Instead of thinking "If only I had $500K, I'd be successful" you think "What if I could be successful without $500K?"

The other thing I want to mention is that none of us are ever alone. Call it God, Great Spirit, or The Universe, call it Fred, Ethel, or Lucy. Call it whatever you want. That which came before and has always been. THAT will not abandon you. Even if you don't believe in him/her/it/the Borg.

So while thinking "Nobody's going to help you" can be a little frightening for me, I think you can also rephrase that as "you don't need anyone else's help; you have the tools you need".

After reading your article Derek, i have to agree because that is exactly the attitude i have taken over the last 5 years or so. If i had sat around waiting for investors, i would never have recorded and released my three Cd's 'Brainfudge", "Knotty Bits" and "Cerebral Lubrication". I just found shopping deals was never successful anyway, so why wait while the best and creative years of your life slip by? Is this depressing? Not really, in fact it is empowering and you can really get a lot done on your own these days.

Thanks Derek!

Chris

Well, Im feeling chatty today, so I will give my opinion. If anyone is going to advise the "Do it yourself" way and have it be empowering and encouraging, it's Sivers. I mean, afterall, he did become successful DIY style.

I have been working in the music biz for a short time, but I can already tell you 1 out of 10 people will do things for free (usually a family member) and 9 out of 10 will do things if they see $$$.

Besides, if you do something by yourself and come out on top, you have way more bragging rights!

You are correct, no one will help you until you help yourself. You may be able to get friends to contribute in promoting you but to find a manager, booking agent or investor is near impossible unless you are seen as a profitable artist. Connect with as many people as possible, but do it in a more personal fashion. get to know the person who is interested in your music instead of spamming users on major social networks in hopes you gain that 1% who actually aren't bothered by your impersonal approach. Potential investors, booking agents etc.. need to eat as well and can't sink hours of time into one artist on speculation that in the long term make money.

I wonder if this "independent" way of doing things is a result of our culture's attitude of "I'll do it my way" or if it's because everyone is out for their own with no regard for the guy next to them. It seems that we're responsible for ourselves only and cannot expect our success to come from anyone else. At the same time if our interest is only in ourselves then we miss out on enjoying those around us.

Sometimes it's discouraging to me that no one is willing to help a starving musician achieve their dreams. It's also empowering though because it frees me to pursue my goals without waiting for someone else to "do it for me".

We all need to be strong enough to pull our own weight and humble enough to admit we all need each other's help.

Agree, Derek

A record label is simply an investment bank that wants its money back in good time. They start to deduct from the day they invest in the artist.

I think you simply have to show the world that you are willing to invest your time, energy, resources and soul before people start helping you. I have been fortunate in that the people who can help me are doing that now...took a long time and a lot of proving myself and the music...best advice...keep at it! Sign I keep above my desk..."Always bear in mind that your resolution to success is more important than any one thing"...Abraham Lincoln

I would be encouraged. I don't want anything the easy way and I want to work hard to reach my goals. I realize that my aspirations are in my hands and mine alone. The more energy I put out there, hopefully the more I'll receive and if people don't respond then I'll just keep trying until I make my splash.Music is what I love so there's no loss for me. Creating music is like a painting, once its complete I feel I've fullfilled my role.

We're each personally responsible for our success. Help usually means taking out a mortgage on your success. Eventually, your success will belong to someone else. If you're in music for the money, you're an idiot. Be a banker.

Most people are going to answer with the response that makes them look good. The 'rebel without a cause' I don't need anyone, attitude.

The fact is, most people are discouraged by this response and they're right to be. It used to be that you would work your ass off and eventually someone would come to the table to help you run your business at a level that most people in music don't begin to have the competency to do. Nor should they, we’re talking about sophisticated marketing here. This is a legitimate skill, we can just expect musicians of all people to just figure it out.

$5000/month? Here in Toronto a typical door price for an indie band would be $5-$8. If you're really happenin' maybe you'll pull in 100 - 150 people. Call that somewhere between $500 and $800 at the door. After paying the sound guy and the door staff (why that's not the bar's problem is another story) maybe you've got $300-$500 left. Now it's time to pay the openers who you will undoubtedly screw over because it rolls down hill. So now maybe you've got $200-$400 take home. Oh yeah, I forgot about postering...count that in too.

--minor topic diversion--

In the meantime the so called “promoters” (see: alcohol retailers) do literally ZERO to help you build your audience. They’ll write ‘nice job’ on the door envelope and that’s about. God forbid, you have an off night and under draw. Well then they’ve got all kinds of things to say.

If you do have a good night, you’re thinking, “right on, now we’ll get to support a national act when they come through town cause we did right by the bar!” . Nope. You see the national act is on a big booking roster who is sending out their own opener. So you’re going to have to get to $5000/ month without this too.

--back to the money now--

In a 5 piece that's a wopping $40-$80/ player for a nights work...super...and of course they're not even taking that, we're putting it in the bank to cover the rehearsal space, the publicist and God knows what else AND THIS IS THE HOME TOWN SHOW!

This used to make sense because the idea was, that someone who understood how to market you and was willing to put up the dough to do it would eventually come along because you got good at what you're good at.

I just don't buy this ideaolgy that musicians will have to be the businessmen with the same level of sophistication. It's not going to happen. This might work if the labels and big bookers didn't exists but they do. So now not only are you not working WITH them you're competing against them. While they're resources may be depleted, they're still going to crush you at commercial radio and shut you out of most of the intermediate level gigs through booking agencies and managers, aka the insiders.

Expecting that the musicians will just run their businesses at a level even resembling that of a traditional label act makes about as much sense to me as expecting the label guys to be able to pick up a guitar and make the music. They're not good at it, nor would we expect them to be.

People keep saying, oh the opportunities for the artists are so enormous now. Maybe.

We like to talk about online and viral marketing like it's the be all and end all, like it is just as easy as putting something online and it all happens. Online marketing is just as hard and expensive as traditional marketing relative to what you get.and the budget you have to do it. Further, myspace and facebook and last.fm and the like are super if you're trying to reach 15-25 year olds but what happens if you're not selling music to kids?

It's bad out there. Really bad and most people who say they're encouraged by your response are just posing tough and are quite frankly, full of it. The fact is almost everyone drops their chin when reading this.

There are a choice few who thrive in this against the wind culture but no one is being honest if we say the anywhere close to the majority will.

We will lose good bands and good music to this climate, of this I am certain. I see it every day. And this isn't the 'they were never good enough' pile. This was the 'they were more than good enough and worked their ass off but never had someone to guide their career' pile.

At the very least, make sure you're very skinny, wear neck scarves a lot and play music that is very, very, very familiar or baring that try to make something that is so 'modern' that people won't criticize you lest they look unhip. That seems to be what’s working.

So I'm admitting it. I'm discouraged but the good news is I didn't get into this business because I'm big on facts. Trying to make it in music is an unreasonable endeavour so you need to be unreasonable. A reasonable person would pretty much say f-this upon examining the realities of the business. While, discouraged, I am not a reasonable person. This will either push me and my band mates through to the next level or drive us to the wrong end of a bottle of Jim Beam. Maybe both. Only time will tell

Way more bitter than I thought I was,

Alex

I know it's all up to me.And I like not depending on outside circumstances. However, I work best in a team. When you don't have that team, things get foggy and slow. The freedom of the internet is a gift...but it's also a vast limbo. But I do feel more in control when it's up to me.

Doing it on your own is a positive thing. Then not only do you reap the rewards but it's extremely fulfilling and inspiring to others.

This just further reminds us that you can't expect people to hand you things. You have to do the work. It's not easy. We have chosen this path/this field. Some of us are late bloomers and that's ok. I'm a great believer that if you put in the hard work, good intentions and treat people with respect all whilst building your brand and honing your craft- people will start helping. Why- because they'll recognize your value and they'll want to be a part of your life. Trust this! It works..

Interesting thoughts. Our greatest progress in our musical careers have been through

A) creating good music

B) working hard

C) helping hands - though without A) and B) this wouldn't have been possible.

In any business you have to get opportunities. The best thing to do is to position yourself to where you can make the lucky breaks more likely to happen.

This is such a hard one... it has taken me years to realise that no-one is coming on a white horse to rescue me. And everytime I have listened to people promising help, I've ended up delayiing things and being back where I started weeks or months, or even years later. So now when I talk to industry people - agents, labels, venues, festivals - in my first couple of sentences I ask them to please do me the courtesy of saying "no" quickly rather than keeping me hanging on if that's what their answer is going to be,,, and in my experience most people know their answer in the first minute or so of your pitch. I recently delayed a project by 18 months waiting for one person who kept promising great things. Eventually we had to move on and once I took control again, things have start to move along - granted, not at the pace I would like, but moving nonetheless.

I am not going to answer your question Derek . Does that discourage you or encourage you ?

The good old days are over, if you want things done self independence is the best way. For my first project I did basically everything and had a fair amount of success for not knowing much about the music business, and of course I made a few mistakes as well, but it's part of the learning curve and I would not have learned as much depending upon someone else.

Big Break-someone will find me-someone will love me/finance me-thinking has been nothing but detrimental to my career and I'm finally out of the bowels of it-and now I do what I can control, I do what I want to do, I don't sell myself out, I don't sell out my values and that has somehow made me more money. I can't control who thinks I have talent (or is too prude for my naughty songs) or thinks I'm worth helping. I can only spend my time writing songs, entertaining audiences and asking nicely for opportunities. It became a spiritual quest for me to stay in my own "business" and out of the heads of professionals. I might need miracles but miracles aren't forced.

I've always advocated doing it yourself. I mean, I look at it this way: if you BUILD everything yourself, you OWN everything yourself. By doing this you put yourself in a position where people come to you and you are in the superior position for negotiating any deal.

This does not mean you are alone in the game, but it means you have to orchestrate everything. You can still delegate work to those you pay or have volunteers do stuff for you, but ultimately no "Investor Angel" is gonna swoop down and save you. You have to PROVE yourself.

Musicians who think that someone is going to do everything for them are a bit deluded. Your talent is not your commodity in this new world. Your commodity, your bargaining power comes from how much $$$ and Intellectual Property that is making money that you bring to the table.

I don't get sad at having to do everything myself. I just dig in deeper, because this is my life and this is what I love to do.

Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Get out and DO!

Peace,

Nat

I think its both depressing and encouraging. As a musician it just depends on which day you as me. ;-)

I think what you are saying is true in all areas of life. It is all on you to make it happen.

It's a basic part of my personality not to ask for help. In most cases this is a good thing, though the tendency to take on everything myself can get me into trouble.

I'm quite encouraged to know that it's all down to me. My work is a bit out of the ordinary and I enjoy finding ways to promote, distribute and encourage word of mouth. When you've built something that has something valuable to offer a possible business partner, you can evaluate offers from a position of strength. Being in a position to walk away from a less than ideal offer without looking back is a good feeling.

Giving back by helping someone in the music industry or any other industry is usually rare. However, I do believe that knowing someone who has already made it in the business can help launch someone's career by endorsing him or her. I think "Networking" is a good and positive answer.

'Does it encourage or discourage me'? As a songwriter (I'm not a performer) it makes me realize that it's all up to me. If I want to be successful I must try many different ways to get my songs out there. If I don't self promote, I will remain obscure. It's not easy, but it's the only way.

You know... I think there are different degrees of "help." When I read/hear about families paying for their kids rent, or paying off the debts they incurred, or funding their kids dreams... it just doesn't teach anyone anything. Whatever you want, it comes with a price and many people bail out of wanting to do things on their own it seems, so they ask for "help" to assist them with things they need to do for themselves. Emotional support, and encouragement type of "help" is always needed no matter the situation and can be much more powerful than money used to "help" someone. I sometimes wish more people can LEARN to help themselves.

Jared Matthew Kessler

*Author of "The Poet and the Billionaire: A Personal Journey of Conversation."

I stopped buying into the pampered rockstar myth many years ago. Now I'm older, happier and more musically accomplished than I would have ever been otherwise.

Expect Nothing! Because that's all you are entitled to.

Deciding encouraging or discouraging is to focus on the wrong issue. If you were in an airplane with engine trouble, do you want the pilots to decide how they feel about the engine trouble, or deal with it? First, learn how the music world works. Then decide what you want to accomplish within that system. Then engineer a plan to get to the goal. Finally, stay with it, for years if need be.

i find it liberating. i wouldn't have gotten past my first cd if someone else's money had been tied up in the whole thing. everything in life is a trade-off and there's no such thing as a free hand-out.

I find the self-pity ("no one is going the help me") fuels the "It's all up to me" attitude, which goes along fine until you reach the "I'm exhausted" stage, at which point the entire cycle beings again. My goal is not to have the cycle begin each time at the same level. Imagine drawing an upward spiral pattern on a piece of paper, or picture a slinky climbing the stairs. Today I might be alone trying to book some local gigs. The next time the cycle comes around, I'll be alone planning a regional tour, and so on. Such is life.

I spent most of the 1990’s recording for well know Canadian artists, the purpose of which was to please management and/or the record company. This was a huge waste of time, but I did learn a lot about the business and about recording and arranging music. Now, I rely 100% on myself and though I make less money I am much happier and I can do everything myself. I sell cds online, play my own solo guitar shows, it’s really up to me to do everything, instead of this being a negative, it’s the best thing that’s ever happened.I DON"T HAVE TO ASK ANYONE FOR PERMISSION BEFORE I ACT! I can do a solo guitar show and sell almost $1000.00 in cd sales alone. The musician's that I know that tried to stick to the old business model of having someone take care of their career, both in terms of management and a record deal, are not playing music anymore. Their careers are over. The reason for this is that they wanted what the 80’s gave musicians: a record deal with no chance of recouping costs, although they may have achieved the perception of fame for a few years. Any experience musician will tell you very few artists have ever made money from a record deal. As for agents, they're great, but really you have to be making $100,000.00 or more a year with the band, and after splitting it with band members, 10-15% commission + expenses, it's just not that much dough. Investors, better to get a bank loan, you'll own your material after the loan is paid off, with a deal or investors - they'll still own a piece long after they've recouped!

Its discouraging if I were to look at it the same way as the person who emailed you.

Sometimes you don't get to define the kind of help you will get. Instead of asking for chocolate ice cream with slivered almonds - not chopped, ask for dessert and see what comes your way.

And when it does, you have to be ready to recognize it, enable it and above all be grateful for it.

I've championed many artists over the years, often providing free promotional advice and services, hosting house concerts, spending hundreds of volunteer hours with non profit music conferences. A few months back I was really discouraged - I felt like a doormat who was always giving, never receiving. But then I shook myself out of it, looked around and realized we have wonderful champions of our music - I just needed to get out of the way and let those people help us.

What goes around does come around, eventually. It may not result in a $500,000 investment, but maybe that's not really what you need after all.

Who wants to believe in a fairy godmother? Or godfather. You have to build your own house.

I'd say anyone caught up in these issues needs to dig deep to examine their motives for making music.

I've waited most of my adult life to have total creative control over my artform. I don't even think that way anymore. It would be nice to have some part time help with some of the muck work from time to time; there are only so many hours in a day....

Cheers,

Nick

I appreciate your help and blogs Derek first off. But yes I usually find that knowing no one is going to help me motivates me especially when it comes to music career ventures. I believe that stems from my subconscious belief that working by myself is better off, or better said from my lack of desire to be a "team player." I believe this attitude causes a lot of the suffering I as an independent artist go through as well as the current state of the music industry now. When unity is present and all of the clogs in the wheel work together for a common goal etc there can be harmony and growth. When everyone has each others best interest so to speak there can be success and ground breaking results. So back to you question. Yes knowing that no one is going to help does motivate me and I believe it motivates several other egos in the art industry and many people gaining momentum on their own is exactly what you have. Growth, success and progress are only resulted in those who collect those individuals and perhaps sell there uniqueness as well as likeness's by organizing and labeling them. For example the way a youtube will organize several different video streamers, or the way a myspace will organize several individual's pages or even further the way a record label or publishing company will organize a catalog of musicians work. Or perhaps even how you organized individual bands through CDBABY. Anyhow my point is these individuals are an example of many who are pushing their own cart uphill and perhaps even motivated by the fact that not to many hands will be assisting that up hill process. If someone were to pull their "cart" up hill with an advance of money or perhaps huge amounts of publicity etc would they be as motivated to struggle and document it as "art." I personally say no they would not on the basis of how I would feel. Sorry for the long drawn out answer but once again your blogs have stimulated the brain. Your on a role Derek keep me posted and keep spreading your gift. Peace

I find it encouraging...I think that's one of the wonderful things about music these days, it's all up to the musician how successful things turn out.

I've had big shot managers and lawyer come work with me because of the buzz we created, but even then I found that the things we as a band were doing helped us out much more than the industry types could...

No one cares more about me than me.I stopped waiting for mr. big with a cigar coming to my door with a bag of money a long time ago.I became mr. big.I built my own opportunity over and over again.I love failure,it shows me a new way to try things.Living your dreams and bliss is sucess.Oh yeh get off your ass!

We have been hoping for a break for 30 years, and have concluded a long time ago that whatever happens is what we make happen ourselves. This has encouraged us to keep going, but with a realistic attitude that super stardom may not be in the cards. We have to keep reminding ourselves of the bottom line, that we love music and will keep making it no matter what.

Words to live by, and that's always seemed like common sense, anyway. ;)

I'm sort of a control freak, and the idea that it's all up to me is pretty empowering and validating.

Thanks for the great posts. Do keep them up. Much appreciated.

- Michael

well I believe that people actually do help me on my journey but I dont depend on them, it seems to come naturally when I follow my gut and I am on track..I do everything I can everyday to move forward on my mission.. If I sit and wait for someone it bugs me because its not my nature to let someone control my progress..I am still learning the balance of pushing all out and backing off sometimes to let things unfold, I find listening to my intuition is pretty much always right...even if it is 'wrong'

In reality you can't build an empire alone, you've got to surround yourself with smart cool people who have passion..

Sitting around looking for handouts like in the example in the article is basically panhandling, trying to get something for nothing.. do everything yourself and 'helpers' will come into the picture because they believe in your mission..

My two cents:)

This reply would be discouraging if not for people like Derek who offer so much useful information. If you know what to do, you can do it.

Thanks, Derek:

...and the truth shall make us free! I hope your Christmas and the coming year will be bright, rewarding and empower you with the ability to continue to motivate us with your wisdom.

Best,

Dave Rice

I don't normally post replies to blogs for whatever reason, and I'm not inclined to read the 104 that came before me. However, I did want to weigh in.

A year ago, Derek's statement would have discouraged me. Today, I accept it as truth and am prepared to deal with it as best I can. I don't know if I'd say it encourages me. I would so that I'm going to make music whether anyone pays attention or not. If I somehow manage to make a living at it, great. If not, I'll get by.

You might wonder what the difference is between now and a year ago; Twenty Aught Eight. I've been putting a new song on my web site every week for the last year; I have 3 weeks to go. It's given me a new perspective on who I am and what I want to do, and how to go about it.

I will not compromise who I am. I will not engage in any activity I find to be entirely distasteful or that take away too much time from what I enjoy in life. I will continue to express myself and grow as an artist. I will try to do things to move me and hope that they move other people.

'nuff said.

After many years of thinking that I'd stumble into a magical forest of money trees, agents, managers, and record labels, I arrived at "Reality Road". I've decided that there is little virtue in poverty and self-denial. Using the law of attraction, I am attracting websites, reviews, shows, and money. When the going gets tough, get off of your ass, stop playing games and seize each day.

Carpe Diem. Derek is 100% on the beam. If you cannot handle the heat of the soup (advice) get out of the kitchen.

Thanks Derek - Your Loyal Legion Lenny Paquette

Of course it's discouraging. Why would I lie? It's not exactly a revelation, though.

Although people will help out in small ways if they like what you're doing-- but if one's definition of "help" is being handed half a million dollars for doing nothing, then possibly one needs to adjust one's expectations.

I've found doing it myself is very empowering altho' it was discouraging at first. I was good at playing my gigs now I'm getting good at booking them. Next step- promotion!

It,s no news for me,to get a dollar you need to spend a dollar,,but what do you do when you have no funds, for me the thing you can do is to get a lot of contacts so i use the services that i benifit from,,saying that i have not found that service yet,,but to get over this obsticle drives me more than stimulate the feeling to give up.

one reason could be that i work with marketing(not music) and know that commitment allways pay,s off in one way or another.the hardest part is to reach the listeners,,but i also bealive that promoting companies, cd services etc,will cut prices to stay in bussines and without music what could they do.

The answer is "yes." Yes, it is discouraging at first, when illusions of easy success are shattered. And yes, it is extremely motivating to realize that there are no easy answers and very few easy successes. Motivating in an "oh shit, I better get out there and hustle or I won't have any food!" sort of way.

Also, one of the most important lessons to learn from all this -- and this ties in with Derek's other post about conferences -- is to always think about how you can help others before you ask for help from them.

I think that answer depends on the individual and his/her circumstances. I would be the LAST person to judge anyone's response - be it encouraged or discouraged...we're all different. I think in the utopian world, you at 20 years old w/ a full band behind you (helping take some of the work load off), no bills to pay or few at that, and the "rocky" theme playing in the back of your mind, it may encourage you to push hearing all the "no" answers. But what about the DIY guy who has struggled his entire life, and DOES possess the talent, hasn't been able to crack the right connections, has to get a day job he hates to make ends meet, has the phrase "no unsolicited material" STAMPED in his mind, etc, etc...he may get discouraged...people w/ very little have done great things..is there a formula or is it written in the stars...? Damned if I know the answer!

HI DEREK! GREAT ARTICLE. MY STORY MAY SOUND OH SO FAMILIAR. I OPENED A RECORDING STUDIO 10 YEARS AGO ONLY TO PUT MY SOLO CAREER ON HOLD. AFTER YEARS OF LEARNING THE MUSIC INDUSTRY (THE HARD WAY) I FINALLY DECIDED TO FOCUS ON SELF AND RELEASE MY DEBUT ALBUM. I WAS SO PROUD TO FINALLY PRODUCE MY PROJECT BUT MY EXCITEMENT WAS QUICKLY EXSTINGUISHED BY OTHERS PRESSURING ME ABOUT OVERNIGHT SUCCESS-(YOU KNOW-YOU GOT A DEAL YET?) I GOT SO CAUGHT UP WITH THIS-I THOUGHT I WAS'NT SUCCESSFUL UNLESS I HAD A DEAL. SO, INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON SELLING MY PRODUCT(CD) I IMEDIATELY STARTED WORRYING ABOUT GETTING SIGNED TO A MAJOR LABEL. AFTER COUNTLESS DAYS AND WASTED MONEY ON PURSUING A RECORD DEAL I FINALLY DECIDED TO START MY OWN LABEL AND SIGN MYSELF. MY ONLY WORRY NOW IS SURROUNDING MYSELF WITH POSITIVE PEOPLE THAT CAN HELP ME PROMOTE MY PROJECT(S).

Anyone investing in a band in this market would be foolish anyway!

My personal strategy is to do my best and see what comes of it.

And by my best I mean everything within my abilities, but also expanding my abilities so I can constantly do more.

Reality is reality - it's always the best starting point. If you want people to help you just start "Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you..." Start helping other musicians and soon help will start flowing back in your direction. Of course, none of them are going to invest $500,000 in you, and really, while money's a big help it's not the answer - it spends too quickly. Friends and alliances stick around. Better to build a networking empire that allows you to generate excitement on a shoestring budget than to watch a small fortune disappear leaving you to wonder how you're going to continue to operate without it.

Its a bit discouraging... not that I don't like being in control, and I'm not lazy... I have lots of energy and passion to put it all the effort thats needed. But I'm already writing music.. recording and producing, booking gigs, doing my live lights and PA, maintaing a website, myspace, twitter sites, a contact list keeping people informed, all graphics and logos, photos and pics, and press etc... Oh, and working 60plus hours per week at my 'day' job! No one could be expected to be an expert at all these things... so you can't help but realize that some aspects have to be suffering. Could I be booking more gigs if I had more time to get out and hit the pavement? Could we be building a bigger fan base if I had more time to promote each gig?

Most of the elements are there, and we do a good job on most things... but the one hurdle that seems too high is how to crack mainstream radio and press? I think its a closed industry and somebody from the inside has to take you on board.. I don't see any other way around it.

What? The entire creative industry (and the survival of humanity) is built on help. If no one is helping you, you're probably not helping anyone else, either. Go out and help ten different people and see what happens.

While you wait for the big ship, keep swimming and keep asking for help. Most if not all doors will be close, however there might one day be the opportunity where you're ready after being tried and molded and surgerized to humility and the door does open.

You have to believe in your contribution of your talents to this world, but if you want to make a fast buck, it might happen too. Comparison will drive you nuts, so stick to your own calling and advertise your music, even if it's not quite there yet.

Mean time, keep writing, keep educating and brushing up your skills. Best to all who endear the winds and the cold and make it to the top. - Vivian Khor

It doesn't depress me, but 'encourage' isn't the word I would use. Perhaps it just steels my resolve to succeed in my field.

I think there's a problem in any either/or question: it doesn't have to be just one or the other.

Sometimes, you can get no help - and that can be good - you grown, you learn; but you can hit a wall where you need someone else's experience or knowledge.

You can get offers of free help - that are worth every penny. But sometimes that "free" help (word of mouth, say), can hook you into new sales and new gigs you don't expect; because you don't know who knows who.

You can just as often pay for pro help that's no help at all, because they're doing it for the money - not you, not your art, not your "style". Just because you don't mind accepting you have a "product to sell" doesn't mean you want to be "Diane Warren" product if you want to be "Elvis Costello" product.

And sometimes you're looking for someone to help, because you're really looking for someone to blame.

And sometimes, if you do some research and get some good references, paying for help really pays off.

One person can find all of this, at different stages of a career.

I'm a big fan of Plan B. Have a Plan B. Call the pro agent; but if he doesn't call back - don't stop booking your own gigs in the meantime.

I started as a guitar player but soon learned to sing cause nobody I met would show up on time and when they did show up they were drunk!, I then learned to record cause I saw very quickly that all the recording engineers just want your money. I learned how to drums,bass,sing,guitar,record produce,promote and the only other person involved in my project (the mix)screwed it up and I went from full length to EP! but I'm really a positive person really. over&out, lunarman

Derek - why are all the posts given single digit numbers - did you want only 10 comments?

unfortunately, I can't comment on wether it makes me happy or sad, as it's just so obvious, and has been for so long, that it doesn't affect me emotionally at all.

The upshot is, you can only, ever, rely on yourself. No one else cares. Even your closest friends and family have a breaking point. You're the only one who will go beyond that to make things happen for yourself. Accepting that will not bring you success, but will get you a lot closer.

The whole reason I'm on CD Baby is because no one ever 'has' helped me. CD Baby allows us all to bypass all the red tape and go directly to the people. I realize you (Derek) have separated from CD Baby, and if I could have laid palm leaves on the ground in front of you during your exit I probably would have. The web and digital in general are progressively making agents and Music companies irrelevant and now, more and more, it's just up to the artist. If he/she is financially successful great, if not, it's no ones fault but the artist's, because there are almost no barriers now, that would have otherwise been there in the past. More and more instead of gigantic conglomerates putting a lot into a few artists, the industry is moving towards putting a little bit into a lot of artists, thus creating a healthy middle class of musicians that otherwise would have been left out in the cold. Help from investors is no longer relevant, in this artist’s opinion; it's just a matter now, of at least trying to make great music that people will also buy.

It's encouraging and discouraging. While we all need a helping hand, NO ONE can promote You better than You!

So get on it! Empower yourself and learn how to do the things you want others to do for you. You'll be smarter.

I just started a blog for musicians called GRASSROOTSY. It gives great advice for how to get your name out there in clever, simple, practical ways.

http://www.grassrootsy.wordpress.com

This has been my reality for over 20 years. I think that if someone is discouraged by this post they are in the wrong business. Music is a labor of love. It's great that I've been able to eek a living out of it too. I'm grateful, but I also do odd jobs when I need to. Noone is entitled to "help" but when it comes it sure is nice. I've struggled doing this stuff on my own for so long. Some times I do a better job then others. I'm still here making music and doing what I love. If its not your passion, don't waste your time--get a day job and play music for your friends in the living room. :)

blessings to all.

alice

It doesn't discourage me now, but once upon a time it did, when I thought that I needed other people to succeed, and I held unrealistic, grandiose expectations about how much money I could make.

Once I saw the statistics, and I realized that the thing to which I then aspired was being a widget of the fortune-driven star machine, I got over it.

Whether discouraging or inspiring, the choice is yours. Once you decide to take the reins & make it happen, there's no one else standing in your way.

The encouraging element, everyone else is in your same boat. No one else is going to get a $500,000 angel investor. So the only thing you have to do is outrun everyone else.

As for agents, if you're grossing $5000/mo. I think you're going to attract a very low-level agent. Most mid-level agencies aren't interested unless you're making $5000/night & the big agencies aren't interested until you're up to $10,000 (at least).

Good luck to all.

Dear Dereck:

I have a lot to say about this subject--Most of which makes me extremely unpopular in this business-- I feel both encouraged and discouraged because like most other businesses it is the top tier that can make or break you and it takes a team effort to make a record and artist truly successful--There are a lot of variables that must be considered and for most indie artists investment of not only thier time and their soul but a heck of a lot of money--in any business situation it is sticking with it that eventually makes you successful as long as you have a product people are willing to purchase --Although I am motivated by the naysayers the reality is that with out radio, the agents and the media on board this business is a money pit--the most important thing an artist can do for themseleves in my opinion is connect with their fan base on all levels and cultivate that specifically --That is best chance you have and I do think there are people like yourself that can help and are willing to help and indie artist if you can manage that on your own--Question of the day what is the most effcient way to do that and is it the same for all artists?

I find it encouraging. The modern music industry by its own standards,is failing. I don't think that kind of partnership suits me. Instead of "Nobody's going to help me," I think, "Look at everything I get to do, any way I want! Maybe I can do it better." Whether that means by myself or with people who care, it's really exciting.

I'm the kind who'd rather walk than wait for a bus without a schedule. Whether the bus comes or not, walking will ALWAYS get me there. There's no other possible outcome! Now that's exciting.

There's plenty of success for everyone. There's plenty of love for everyone. For me to win, no one else has to lose.

That is encouraging. Duh!

Plus, there is always somebody who will help you. YOU KNEW THAT! :)

I think your answer was a good one but incomplete.

The reality is that we all need supporters of various kinds, and *everyone* out there who's successful (even you Derek) has people backing them up in various ways. I think it's important to be appreciative of who and what we have and build on our strengths.


I agree that the myth of being "discovered" needs to change. In the new model, each artist must get herself to a certain point where "the industry" can't help but take note. Getting to that point takes lots of hard work and being a self-starter. And there's no guarantee that after all your efforts, you'll actually get that industry attention and investment you're looking for. But that's what this business requires. Hard work, talent, intelligence perseverance, and luck.



It's all about building a note-worthy story and generating enough excitement and "buzz" around what you do that you stand out and attract those "investors" you're looking for. At that point you may choose to partner up with an agent, label, publisher etc. or you may decide that you like doing it indie style and stick to that.

This industry is not for the faint at heart. Be prepared for lots of uncertainty and a whole lot of ups and downs. You must ask yourself, "Is there anything else I could do and be happy?" If the answer is "yes", then I say, get out while you still can. But if the answer is "no" then buckle up and prepare for the ride of your life!

Good luck to you all!

T. Nile

It's discouraging. Even though it might be true. Derek, you have an amazing gift of expressing yourself, knowing how to draw attention to your expression (some magnetism that can't really be learned, that is not the product of hard work) that could get a whole lot of people to sniff your butt and agree with whatever you say.

Of course what you say sounds good...ur the man! You've got thousands of us dreaming, and that's worthwhile. I've been doin my thing close to twenty years, since I was a babe. I'm not too sure if I'm doing something wrong, but things haven't worked out as planned. There's always a part of me that says...they'll come someone who will help me make it big. I'd be going up against mass media, advertisement, and all those scam companies out there saying they can help with the right amount of money, but they all know its up to me, my skill, my talent, but also luck, also the grace of what is meant to be I suppose.

Life is like a game of Texas Hold 'em, sure it's up to me to play my cards right, but I've got to make some good spreads to keep up the fight, and to win the big one...but who says the big one will make me happy? What does success mean to me? I may not be able to get there no matter how hard I try, and modifying my dream, may not suit me either. So, what to do?

That's good.I am injoying every monment doiung my own thing.To me it's relly not about the money, because I'am doing what I love to do, and paying the bills. And I have a lots of fans all over the world. Also I am total Independent. I donot wish to have anyone over me.Keep it CLEAN. Mr. C.B.S

While our band was together (Blue Steel 44) we accomplished alot together. We released 8 indie cds and recorded with a Grammy-winning songwriter and producer. Since the break-up of the band I have been flying solo....but I haven't stopped. Since the band's dissolution, I have gone back to my roots and released 6 solo albums (mostly blues--Matt Luther Wells and Luther albums) where I did everything myself from my home studio. What that means in the real world is that I have released or appeared on nearly as many albums as bands like Huey Lewis and News and the Cars. It is not always easy flying solo but it can be done if you are persistent and healthy. And sometimes if you fly solo, you can occasionally get help from the most unusual people and places.

I find it best to arrive at a neutral position on this question. My music is about as resolutely uncommercial as one could imagine. As a result, it's really not about "making it" for me. I like to do things myself. Publicity always takes something away from the artistic enterprise. If many people were interested in what I'm doing, I'd feel like I was on the wrong track. One is instead looking for those few that wish to expose themselves to something really soul-expanding. Someone has to keep the fires of esotericism burning.

If you are s self-starter you wouldn't be acing these questions.

I find it every interesting that there are still lots of people who think everything is going to be handed to them and then when reality is explained to them they find it discouraging. I was talking to a friend of mind the other night that has produced many famous bands. Well 4 years ago he started his own band. Where did he get the money to record and go on tour - it was all his. Why? Because it was his project and this is something that he wanted to do, so he did it. So even with his connection no one would invest.

To me it's a bit like learning the chords of a song from a songbook. Might be quicker and easier but the songs I learned by myself are the ones I still remember and enjoy playing!

I'd imagine most everyone reading Derek's blogs are Independent musicians and so you really shouldn't be expecting too much to come from the outside, should you?

Would you invest 500,000 in something you didn't know? I don't think so.

The more I realise that I actually create my own life the more I realise I also create my own opportunities.

Hello, great question, but as always your response is correct.

I have noticed that society in general has come to blame everyone else for their own individual problems...I was late because the bus was late...I did poor in school because the teachers were bad...my band is not famous because I do not have a record contract...a manager...and then it is always the manager or the record company is no good...and that is why I failed...it has nothing to do with me...oh, how wrong !

My rule in life is....if you take responsibility for your life onto yourself...all of a sudden you are in control...what a concept...and I am no longer at the mercy of the bus, or teachers, record companies or managers....wow !

My feeling is that too many people think they are great songwriters or musicians just because it is them...to much into self. The bands that make it and the songwriters that make it have spent a lot of years working on their craft, developing their stage presence, building contacts... it is work...hard work, that few are interested in doing...why...a million reasons. Everyone wants the easy way out !Derek is correct....if you are not making $5000 a month on gigs, you do not belong on a record company roster...you are not ready. Maybe your songs are really bad or your stage presence is horrible...so what...work on it...you are not born perfect. Get to work and play the little clubs, every little place possible in your neighborhood, write with friends...get to work...yeah...and have fun ! Things will happen for the good...'you only get what you need, not what you want'...where have I heard that...play hard !!

I agree! You answered honestly and correctly. When we are looking for someone to help us we are just looking for someone to do the work for us.

The bottom line is that everyone wants to start working one project when the work is already done. Therefore, we have to do all the work ourselves. Then, and only then, will we take complete ownership and when we have made all of sacrifices and put in the countless hours we won't want anyone to come in and take all the credit (financially and otherwise). Why should they be allowed to do so when you are the one who has done all of the work.

Therefore, do the work yourself...you'll feel better for it in the end.

Without taking the time to read hardly any of the responses (because I want to be the original!), my reply to self promotion comes from one conundrum(?) regarding talent and two necessary traits.

The talent issue can involve true expertise or dumb luck. In "mainstream" jazz, a true medium of improvisation, listeners tend to be more hip on true talent. That said, the enterprising player can still go a long way before determining that they can't quite fit. I would guess that relates to "the peter principle" in business? But lets assume that you do have the talent. Your initiative and work ethic (big picture) and that all important "attitude" ingredient, are what will achieve successful results. Like I say, my thing is jazz but if your particular venue is hot or can be hot with a core (usually younger) audience, do not go to sleep! But otherwise, stay the course, work every angle and most importantly, pretend that no one but you can get it done.

When I REALLY was in show biz,('62-2000) I wasn't a singer really and was lucky if I made an average of $10,000 per year. I quit in 2000 and then some songs came to me about inspiring others to do Tai Chi & Qigong. I got excited after getting a gig even before the CD was done. That got me printing 1000, copies and I could barely give 'em away. I found out I was happy teaching. I still occassionally perform them for people. I considered my entire career successful as I never had to take on office or restaurant work. I knew how to live cheaply and SIMPLY. I am 62 and if anybody wants inspiration to get in shape in mind, body and spirit,see my links on www.taoTLC.com My advice is to be happy with what's in front of you.

In the words of the philosopher Kant; "it depends"

You don't actually know that no-one will invest in you so optimism can work both ways....do it yourself-let the situation snowball,which it will if you keep on it AND ask relevant investors (suckers? surely not!)at various stages-keep them informed and report success, however small. However do not delude yourself-bullshit should remain creative and based on truth-there are really no secrets!

When you work a day job, you never phrase requests using "me" -- it's always about what's best for the company. I think that's a good rule for music -- your network and how you can help the people you know is more important than "give me half a million so I can succeed."

I don't mind being alone and controlling my own destiny. But beware the predators, saboteurs and haters. Never in my life did I know such people existed. But I will persist. Knowing that I am a good person is its own reward.

There is honestly nothing better than creating what you want when you want to create it; producing what you want when you want to produce it. The best of all opportunities and the highest level of freedom falls under the umbrella of being independent.

It may require initiative and self-motivation, but if you love what you're doing and you're creating what you want to create, it's not work at all.

And if you keep doing what you love to do every single day, others will notice. Others will come to look at you as an expert at what you do because you've been at it so long.

Also a couple tips -

1. Hold onto all of your writer and publisher share ownership for everything you create.

2. License your work non-exclusively.

Thanks, Derek, for devoting your life to helping the indie and unknown musicians who, nonetheless, create some of the best music around. Concerning myself, I spent years going to Songwriter's Guild meetings and sending out demos to record labels, but never attracted the attention of any kind of label..(except rejection notices). Then came the time that I decided to do it alone. Despite being a "starving" musician with limited funds, God somehow saw to it that I had enough money to record and release CDs. Now, ten years later, I have a discography of 5 albums and I actually sell some of them! Since I'm on my own, just about all of the money from sales is mine to keep except for my online distributor. Enough money has come in for me to buy some new keyboard equipment, a new piano for my teaching business and pay some bills. I'm glad that I didn't wait around for a record label to sign me and be my saviour, because I'd still be waiting. No, I'm not wealthy, and I'm struggling like everyone else, but I have total creative control over my career with no compromise. That is better than being under the thumb of some greedy corporate company who could care less about the music.

Making music is the easy part. Knowing what you really want out of life and how you want to spend your time is the tricky part.

I think each of us has our own path to follow, and no one really knows how much time we have to follow that path. As musicians we make our business decisions and we create our music and we try to get people to listen. I think we're the lucky ones. Certainly anyone reading Derek's blogs here is in a better situation than someone born into poverty and starvation in a third world country with no Internet access. For those of us born into a life where we have the opportunity to make music for a living, it seems to me that you really only get out of life what you put into it.

That's my two cents, for what it's worth.

But Derek--you already help me!

You got me a barcode when I couldn't afford a thousand copies--and you digitized my tunes and got them on itunes and online--and then I made enough to get the thousand copies for my new CDs.

And--so far--I'm doing okay in a minor way--and I'm not sure how to attract the big bucks or big producers--or even an agent--but every year I do a little better--and I get better stage shows, better workshops and make more friends and fans--and in 2009--I've got a plan to expand into a different genre--so maybe that will help. :) It's called "Drumming On the Edge of Banjo" and wait till you hear it. :)

Hey--I'm going to make a thousand CDs--get a barcode--get on itunes--maybe some several someones will help me--maybe not. But--my music is being heard--its getting out there--and folks like it!

2009 is going to be a good year--I can just feel it.

And Derek--you're already helping me get to big time stuff I would not have a chance at if you were not already helping. :)

I'm an artist who figured out a while ago that no one was going to hand me a music career, so I made an album on my own. I put everything I had into it and am still proud of the product 4 years later, but the hard truth is that the skill set needed to be successful at doing EVERYTHING yourself is not something most artists have (and I'm no exception). I'm smart, pragmatic, hard-working, and I have a strong product, but I'm not good at 24/7 schmoozing and networking and hustling. I tried the self-promotion thing and burned out on it. It's a soul-sucking endeavor for me, so I stopped. So my professional-sounding album just collects dust. Because I was never that interested in fame & fortune anyway, this is OK with me, but I do think it's sad that to make it in this industry talent at self-promotion trumps talent at making music any day of the week. So to answer your question honestly, I think most artists would find this news (though it shouldn't be news to anyone over 18 - it's reality) discouraging AT SOME POINT...

I would love to have a team of people who are excited about my music and want to get behind it. To have a team just to be sitting on a roster not being promoted or in a catalogue not selling and be able to put it in my bio as some kind of evidence of success...not worth it to me. But whether or not that team ever comes, I've been created to create, and that's what I'll do, regardless of the of the outcomes.

Am I discouraged or encouraged? Not sure. I'm leaning toward discouraged because I'm exhausted. And it's hard to keep the creative aspect of my life flowing (which is the most important to me) when I am also my own manager, bookkeeper (and terrible at it), booking agent, promoter, publicist, label...Not feeling sorry for myself, but the fact is I'm just plain tired.

I actually found an invester that put up $500,000. I wrote the music to lyrics that his friend, Larry Lind wrote. Now Larry claims and Joan Baez comfirmed that he wrote most of Dylans 60's hits. But they would not listen to me. He wasted $100,000 on a video I didn't need, paid a publicist $5,500 a month, that did nothing. Paid Micheal Wagener $75,00 to mix the album. Then had Paul Lani remix the album for $30,000. Moved me to LA in $3,400 a month house for a year. Paid over $40,000 for photo shoots, video pilot, live performence. He only allow 12 paid rehearsals with my band. He would not support touring or radio promo, the two things that actually build a fan base. The album scored 5 number 1 songs on the internet chart and was getting airplay on several stations. But he wouldn't follow up and make it work for us. So money unwisley spent, doesn't help. How I wish he would have taken my advise as I have over 30 years experience in the music business and know what works and what doesn't. The album, Dennis Logan S.O.S. is a great album that could have done much better if things were done right. What a same.

Realizing that nobody else is going to help you as a musician brings clarity to the present situation and helps when trying to plan the way ahead. It also helps prevent unrealistic expectations of what can be achieved and helps one to avoid the disappointments that inevitably occur when relying on other people. Self-reliance can be a little lonesome at times and the results may be modest to put it mildly, but at least they will be solid.

It depends on my mood. When I am positive and enthusiastic about my job, the statement encourages me and I know I´ve got it all in my hands (thankfully that´s most of the time). However, when I am in a bad or lazy (some might call it premenstrual) mood, then the statement might discourage me. That´s just my personality!

Had to chuckle when I read that. Been true of many things in my life, although some serious help has come in unexpected ways from time to time. The key is not expecting it. I keep farming, beekeeping and playing music because I enjoy it. There is only a narrow window in life for doing all these things, having gotten a late start on all of them. Anything can happen to one at anytime, and it can all go away tomorrow. I once heard a local vendor say he finally learned he needed to pursue his particular market with a rifle, not a shotgun. Seems like it might apply to music as well, and I am now trying this strategy. Costs a lot less, and is far less frustrating.

Happy Holidays to everyone!

Best of luck in 2009!

xo

Being number 200. THAT'S gotta mean something right?

I've realized a looong long time ago that folks are always offering you something when you least need it. It's when you're looking for an assist that you'll most likely incur resistance. Hard lessons learned hard. We keep pushing.

Okay. 205? Cool.

Dadgummit!!! Nevermind, as long as I'm in there ;-)

Derek,

Self starters tend to be the only people that succeed. Those are the type of employees businesses look for. What would be different in music? Oh, I know, it's harder and there isn't a guaranteed salary at the end of the week - unless you go and secure the gigs yourself.

Thanks for the continued guidance and advice.

M

I think its encouraging and discouraging at the same time, its great to be in control of your own work but we need each other to reach many of our goals - especially as artists.

Someone who buys your CD or t-shirt or even comes out to a show is investing in you. You need to make them want to and make the experience valuable so they continue to. A lot of artists have also successfully set up fan funded album releases.

I think its important to think positively and work to attract the success you want no matter what field its in. It always surprises me when goals of mine like playing a certain club come into being because of connections I made and people I helped who are returning favors so to speak.

If it frustrates you that no one will help you then be the person that helps others - set up a gig for another band, start a section in your newsletter about other bands, restaurants, etc to check out. Feel free to let them know you did that and maybe they will reciprocate somehow. As Derek said in his conferences blog its about personal connections.

I think that most people wont help you but there are a few that will. You are best off trying everything you can to succeed on your own but stoppinmg to help others does matter. Just ask Jimmy Stewart.

Sincerely,

Micah

sorry about the spelling errors im not the best typist

I guess for me it is all about the music though I did go through a period of feeling like I was not getting any help. When I was younger -1982- I had a partner and we did acoustic songwriting stuff. People really liked us and a friend set us up a meeting in London with Lionel Bart--producer of Oliver, and later we went to stay with Peter Sinfield...neither would put money up for us. That was a huge slap in the face for me. Some years later I formed a pop-rock band in Spain. We became very popular--so much so that we did some touring and opened up for the #1 band in Spain in 1987. After a few years our producer dropped us and the band split up--another huge slap in the face. Later in life I got back together with my acoustic partner and played all over the East Coast and actually had great opportunities and opened for Acoustic Alchemy and Aztec2Step who offered a meeting with us later that year. We split up--egos-- and that is when I really had to start finding myself. I first kept trying to join other musicians and formed a funk band but eventually realized that I could only rely on myself. For this I knew I had to become a much more proficient player. At 36 I started to study classical music--practiced 6 hours a day for 5 years. Eventually I realized that what I liked to play was non-standard tuning picking style--but my own--something that was comfortable for me. I bought a small home studio and started writing and recording.

I just feel lucky to be able to do what I am doing which is writing and recording my own stuff. I have been doing this since 1995 and since then have done everything myself as far as promotion with no money. I have done this through all of the main websites out there. Here and there I have spent a small amount of money to give myself extra boosts. I have joined online competitions, put up 3 cds at cdbaby and had all of my stuff inlcuded in digital distribution. There are some great independant artists sites where you can promote yourself through forums,contests,blogs etc. . .

My greatest moment came when I was noticed by Grammy winning producer and Wyndham Hill founder Will Ackerman. I had sent him a message on myspace to add him as a friend. He emailed me back telling me he really liked my music and the doors to his studio were open any time. In April 2008 I recorded my 3rd cd through literally million $ German Neumann Mikes. I signed my name on his "door" which includes the signatures of Michael Manring, George Winston, Andress Tuck...While there my car broke down and Will lent me his pickup truck. There I was driving around town in Will Ackerman's pickup truck. I am living a dream--the cd sounds unbelievable. I am now in the process of getting the cd mastered with his grammy award winning studio engineer.

This recording gave me such a huge boost I wrote a whole new CD--some of the best stuff I have ever written.

Money helps but it is not necesary to keep doing what is most important to us--that is music. 20 years ago I would never have dreamed I would be talking with Grammy award winners let alone a major icon. Keep doing music, keep fighting to get yourself heard but most importantly keep doing what you like and playing what comes from your heart, and enjoying it!!

Max

No matter what business you are in

it is up to YOU...to make it happen....it's called hard work and

working your way up the ladder....

No one is going to watch the store

for you while you only do the pleasant parts....relationship building is also a part...but it all takes a bit of time...just keep at it!!!

Actually, someone IS going to help me. That person is extremely capable, dedicated, and has my best interests first and foremost in their mind. The person that will help me get to the next level is ME!!!

Even A.P. Carter never considered leaving his day job, so why should I?

I've always wanted to do the music I want, not what others wish me to.

At least that used to be my main principle. Then I've gone astray a few times playing music I didn't really like but later discovered I'd rather for instance driva a taxi for a living and do whatever music I myself happen to want to do and disregard the rest.

Considering how little I earned playing in those uncomfortable-for-me bands It's much better now.

Went on a tour with a choir last spring. Yes,yes, wonderful. BUT when asked what was the high point of that tour (we sang in some churches did some sightseeing etc in Vilnius where my paternal Granny grew up) I had to say it was this moment when two celloists and I (on self-built electric mandolin through a Pignose) played some songs I'd written - no audience at all, just the three of us in a hostel room.

No money? No millions? No screaming fans? So what!

Over the years...I have come to realize that no one will care about my music or project as much as I care. No one really even has the capacity to see it the same way or as being as important as I do. As a band leader trying to keep everyone else in the band motivated...when no one seems to be noticing or caring or coming to shows (for whatever excuse)...I have to say that it just all gets very old. Now that I am no longer 20...or 30...or even 40...it is extremely difficult to find time to even clear my mind enough to write music or the energy to keep trying. The world...and all of its noise and BS tend to choke out any inspiration to even try anymore to make music happen. What is so painfully obvious...however...is the fact that I CANNOT HELP IT. IT IS IN ME AND NOT GOING AWAY. It has no conscience. It has no compassion. It will NEVER EVER stop....EVER! Oh wait...that's terminator...ha-ha. But that's a picture of how we must be toward the business side. It seems that (2nd to funding) finding the 'un-distracted' time is the greatest challenge.

Hey, Im a huge fan of this blog. Im a rapper, coming from africa to montreal. In only a year and thanx to your advices ive been able to set my own website find gigs to play and sell my music online. And im successfull.

To answer your question ill say that kind of question really encourages me. Because I feel nobody else is gonna take a blame for me not being successful.

Thanx so much

Can be disheartening to think like that. For me it comes in waves. Some days I feel so strong and independent then other days I let out a cry for help. As of today all openings have slammed in my face. Tomorrow I'll be in the studio, meaning I'll find new strength in making music. Not everybody can do this and "christ you know it ain't easy"

My talent is my pension or I'm fucked. Love and music. Al.

I'm fifty. I've kinda already gotten my nose rubbed in that bit of reality for, oh, the past 30 years.

SO, yes it does encourage me, in the sense that, I have been doing this for thirty years, growing as a musician, and lyricist, and performer, and have always done so in the face of many concerned looks, and sympathetic sighs.

Upon my educational efforts with thousands of songwriters/artists/bands through the Songwriters Guild of America, It's still surprising to me that in 2008 musicians are still waiting for a helping hand. It's no secret that most musicians are really lazy about learning the music business.

It's boring to learn all the aspects, but its a necessary skill set if you want a real future.

With places like CD Baby, Tunecore, IODA, The Orchard, Ricall etc, there's plenty of DIY opportunities to create attention for your music. Just do a little work.

Its not hard to get in the door of the music industry. The hard part is making the deal. If you can't document your success before you seek a deal, you're pretty much worthless to any investor.

The real effort to be made is in education. Learn to DIY and make money from your music. Even the most meager earnings look better than zero when you're ready to approach a record company or agent.

Reminds me of the old saying, "You get out of it what you put into it".

Yay! I'm happy about this statement. Help implies bailing you out - like your picture of the teetering boat. But no "backer" is going to back you, bail you out, etc., unless you are putting money in their pocket. It's purely business for them and that's not "help" at all, that is, well, business. And art is art, not business. So do art for art's sake. If you want to get into the business side of it, become a businessman/woman -- they're the ones who "make it." I'm happy just doing my music and not putting all that pressure on myself, or worse yet, on my music to "make it." Van Gogh didn't paint for money; Mozart and all of the true artists in their day rarely made a dime. That's why they could create such masterpieces - they were neither selling music nor their souls (i.e. selling out). They created because it was in them to create. If you love creating, then you will do it whether or not you ever make a dime doing it.

Mixed. Although I do believe it's true. One the one hand it motivates me. I have always been an independent type who likes doing things for myself. On the Other hand, I haven't taken advantage of opportunities as much as I could. Nothings going to help as much as first being good at what you do, and two, finding your nitch. Which have been holding me back. I think I'm almost where I wanna be to start but not quite.

It is true that in order to suceed one has to make it happen himself. Take the necessary actions for success and just keep on going no matter how many times you hear that you can't make it.

Tons of people are going to help me. They already have. I'm going to help tons of people. I already have. Howbout that Derek Sivers. Helpful sonofabitch, ain't he? I can't help helping myself. I'm gonna help myself to another helping!

Happy Holidays!

Im an up and coming musician here in Vancouver BC and one of the ways I look at it is like this:

People who want degrees go to university and invest thier time and money making large sacrifices so they can be successful at what they love to do.

For me, thats what making my album is about. Its my first one, therefore a 'tuition' is what I am paying, because Im learning, investing, and growing. I will only have success if I work hard and apply myself. People don't often get asked to play gigs out of the blue. Its about patience, hard work, and putting yourself out there once your ready.

Not everyone is going to like my music/style. Not everyone is going to like me or what I stand for as a person or how I present myself. All I can do is my best and remain authentic to myself, my work, and ensure that I love doing it, which I do. I think it's also about being able to take the punches with grace. Im very lucky to have a few awesome mentors in my life for not just music, but in living. I'll never be too old for guidance and learning, and I will always be strong enough to get myself out there. Patting me on the back just tells me Ive done a good job. It's got to be me who chooses to keep going though.And I just love making music. If one person can identify with something Ive written and am singing about, and Ive enjoyed telling my story, then that is what I call success.

Waiting for or depending on others has never been part of my MO. Goals are key! When I set my goals and live "as if" those goals are accomplished, then the resources I need come into my life on cue.

I always harken back to the fact that nobody asked me to do music. It's a 'job' I chose (chose me?); It's then my job to make it well enough that somebody will appreciate it; and then it's my job to get enough people to appreciate it enough to pay for it.

I simply use myself as a guage for what it takes to buy music, and I am a pretty hard sell. So.. that's my standard and by the way, my 'job' to reach it.

Help will then come to those doing their job. They will be hard to ignore!

-AB

www.arlonbennett.com

Hi Derek,

Funny that you ask... I released a self produce indie CD "Back In The Mood" (with CDBaby) in March. I was already inspired by the fact that I would have to do everything. I performed all instruments and vocals. Recorded, engineered, mixed and now promoted the CD myself. (I left the mastering to Discmakers).

The point got re-inforced yesterday when my wife offered to order Holiday cards for my recording studio (Pristine Studios) to send out. When I got the cards they said "Prestine Studios". My studio has been in business for 2 years and she doesn't know the correct name.

I acknowled how much I appreciated her help and sent them anyway. (One less thing I had to do...)

My point is... If you get help, it's great... But don't let the lack of it stop you...

Happy Holidays,

Dennis

The way to success is to create your own opportunity in the right place at the right time, with a good attitude. A healthy and optimistic outlook will give you opportunity to make the "bad news" your good news.

The best way to get out of your self-centered funk is to help someone else. The real challenge is to take that nice thought and put it into action. This post could offer so many spin-off conversations. I think I'll post one myself.

Make art! Make art! The moment one divests himself of the art of music is the moment that the musician becomes a business man. We live in a post-industrial age, man, and that includes the music industry. Becoming a pop star these days looks to be about as much fun as being a monkey in a cage. Ian McKay had it right all along. Do It Yourself. There's no substitute.

It's good advice, except for one thing. Plenty of people WANT to help! Look at this article? How much did the people reading it pay you to write it? Nothing. Why did it get written? Because you wanted to help. And the advice, "Look first to yourself and your strengths" is good.

The questions are, "What kind of help do you need?" and "How can I find people who want to help me with what I actually need?"

We would all like $500,000 dollars. But there is no magic person or place that is just giving out money to musicians. We need to be BANKERS for that kind of treatment!

But do you really NEED $500,000? What can you return for that investment?

Find out what you REALLY need. Inventory what you can do yourself. And inventory what you can reasonably ask for help with.

I saw Julia Nunes say that she needed a design for concert T-shirt sales on a YouTube video. In less than a week she had more than 150 submissions from fans of designs! Some of them were very professional in quality. But here's the deal, she created a deeper BOND with her audience. She showed that their input in important. She made even the people who didn't submit ideas feel important just being her fans! That's a skill.

For 20 years I've operated under the reality that not only will very little help come from disparate sources. The opposite is actually at work to some degree--people will try and hurt you, slow you, prevent you, obfuscate you, in your journey toward success. And success needs to be redefined anyway. Being a rock star with groupies and exorbitant cash and airplanes and drugs is certainly a rarified kind of worldly existence, but for more than 99.9% of us it is NOT success.

Every time I've longed for an intermediary to make it easier--whether they're finance people, professional people, agents (and the monetary level before an agent will talk to you is $100,00 a year in bookings, not $5000 a month), managers,whomever--it's improved aspects of my journey but muddled it as much as it has helped.

It's GOT to be on your own. It's the only way to do this thing and have it make sense and money and most importantly, good music. Make the music UNDENIABLE. MAke the live show UNDENIABLE. In your own way, on your own terms. Not as compared wo whomever or whatever flavor of the day. According to your own sense of what's great; your own sense of what's expressive; your own sense of what's human and enduring.

Approach everything with enthusiasm and vitality, no matter your age, not matter your level of "success" in this thing. My grandfather had ti right when he just used to simply say "Do the most important thing first."

Ain't nobody gonna give you NUTHIN!!

Hi Derek, as usual, thanks for bringing up such a good topic.

I think the question isn't that cut and dried...the harder it is, yes, it's frustrating, but if I want it, I just want to move toward it.

I think that one person, dedicated to something, can make a big difference, and often, there are people around you who want to or might be willing to help--even if you don't have a huge budget. I think sometimes the hardest part is asking for help from people who may want to help you.

That being said, it's both daunting and exciting that there don't seem to be set definitions for the music biz anymore. On the one hand, it's very liberating--you're not just trying to get into the big machine and it means the artist has so much control over their destiny. But on the other hand, there are so many options and ways to invest your time and energy, let alone your $$...it's awfully hard to be far-thinking and you get pulled in so many directions, and when you're in the middle of it, it's also hard not to second-guess or to know if what you're doing is the "right" thing. It's trying to balance foresight with risk, I think, and being thankful for any successes, no matter how minor they may seem. Even composing an email takes time and energy and I think many get frustrated by thinking they're not doing enough. Every step forward, no matter how inconsequential it may seem, is something. Eyes on the prize, right?

Lastly, everyone who's written here seems to be chugging along, and that says something...

It was 30 yeras ago, I created,

Nobody, Inc (had 10K shares in CA) and why all titles with "nobody" are intriguing.

Nobody was an artist co-op to help artist/musicians and whe internet became itself w/ the original question, "who will make me famous" while I play all day?"..., does anyone love me?..., is there anybody out there? hee hee tnt I give

PS...I should say that a tremendous amount of altruism, advice, love, real help and consideration come from other musicians and artists involved in the same struggle you are. The big-timers will not deign to help. SO in a sense ya gotta give your life away--give your music to the world; give your love to the world; give your words to the world; give your time to those who need it; give your life away. And in comes back in ways you can't imagine or describe.

love out

stewart

Encouraging, very encouraging to leaders and discouraging, very discouraging to well, that other 95% of people. I've done almost 8 albums with almost no help from anyone. When people ask how i make music so easily and so quickly, I say isolate yourself and be a loser for 7 years. I haven't done many drugs, haven't listened to too much negativity and just kinda listened to my inner strength. Whether it's music or anything. You can't control other people. You can't control day and night. Why waste your time with things you can't control. You CAN control yourself.

Difficult challenges are what qualify recording/performing musicians for the next level. It's the difficulties of 'boot camp' early on that make it worthwhile later. For every talented musician out there, there's someone with a fifth of the talent and twice the fearless drive. And that's the guy who makes it in the end.

What about 'recording artists'?; in other words, what if you unfortunately don't have any musicians working with you, and in turn no opportunity to be performing at all? (beyond only one song, needless to say, people's patience for acapela is limited < and beyond this, personally speaking I'm not into what would essentially end up being just karoke if one were to accompany one's self electronically).

In short, I'm doing it ALL by myself; i.e., composing, singing, recording, mixing, producing my own product/cd's, etc.

There must be a place for serious artists to create/exercise their abilities via recording, yet regrettably it seems no one takes this seriously. It is the same as making independent motion pictures, painting, writing, etc. (who wants to watch people paint/write, etc.?), yet in the realm of music, it's as if it somehow isn't "legitmate" valid work!?!?

This is probably the most discouraging aspect of it all as far as I'm concerned...fact is, I'm not personally concerned about (or seeking) 'fame/fortune', yet merely seeking whatever venue(s)that might exist 'out there' (and there must be!) to help my work be more of a reality.

My work (pop/rock genre) is audio painting, and this is indeed as valid a 'form' as much as any live band performing (cause let's face it, in the end it's the audio recordings that everyone listens to, that which remains 'on the record').

The best answer is to help yourself first and then you look fi help , seen.

BLESSINGS fi you Derek.

CARLOS DE NICARAGUA

RASTAFARI

As always Derek, thanks for stepping outside the box for a while. Actually someone usually does show up to HELP, but I have found far too many who expect that others will do everything else. People really do want to help people who are not helpless. This isn't profound, just true. If music is your passion, you have to be willing to go the distance long before you ask anyone else to do all the doing.

Self awareness is the payoff when you do more of the business yourself. Also, you end up trusting more of the right people for partnership when the time comes if you own your own efforts.

Lauren

Maybe this time is help for us all...one thing we all know is "turn, turn, turn.."/all things are temporary/"all things must pass", etc. ...Remember the blues players..their "story" brought up the feelings and the music.. Now we can hold out in our studios and build new pieces that will be far different than what they would have been if the market was easier. This can be a fun time if we let it be. Thanks Derek..for bringing a great communication place to us again!

LOL!

Derek, "Nobody's gonna help you" is exactly how I got involved. When I started out I just wanted to be a songwriter and nobody was interested in my songs. Then I took up the harmonica and the guitar so that I could them myself. The guitar was a challenge and I struggled miserably with the basic chords. My first two being "G" and "D." Then I discovered the "C" chord and struggled some more. I literary destroyed two guitars because "they" wouldn't play right! Mind you now, I still wasn't serious about doing music.

The boy scouts and summer campers tolerated my rough style and even encouraged me. When I joined the Navy things began to move forward. At first I ran into the usual teachers who would take my guitar and play a lot of outrageous chords and riffs that were beyond my comprehension and then give it back to me with a grin and say, "See, it's really easy."

Then I met Nicky while we were doing Mess Deck duty. We both loved the old time country and he took the time to sit down with me each day during breaks in our shifts and coach me. He ran me through the basics, gave me songs to practice, and we did them together. He also gave me a sore knee-cap. Whenever I missed a simple lick or chord he'd kick me in the shins. I finally learned to play rhythm guitar. We were drinking buddies too. He caused more bar fights in the Philippines and Japan than my jaw cares to remember. He'd get plastered and then go over to a table of plastered Marines and point to our table and tell them that his buddies could whip any jarhead in the house! Oh, the good old days.

When i finally decided tog et serious about making music, I again learned that it could take forever or never for someone to pitch in a help. So I started doing everything myself. Singing, writing, promoting, publishing, producing, and eventually started my own music magazine. Once people saw me taking charge of my music I began to get some offers. Unfortunatley I had already been mentored by some old timers who cautioned me about what and what not to expect. So it came to pass that most of the pro-offered help was merely offering me what I had already been doing. And others were seeking to ride the coattails in the hopes that I'd "make it big." My answer to them was always a polite no thanks. One of the most important things I also learned was to always be polite to whomever you meet. You might not like them or their music, but they may prove to be an asset in some way in the future. And this has happened to me.

I also studied. asked questions, and read books on how the major labels operated and then tailored some of those practices to operational ability. I also organized by cataloging my song catalog, demo tapes, published songs,sales, and mail outs. I can tell you virtually everyone I mailed my music to since 1981.This alone is invaluable.

Consider this. If you grew up in a household that loved to take photos, I'll bet the odds are that the negatives to them are stuffed in a kitchen [most common place] drawer. I became a freelance photograper in 1972 and was taught right off to catalog each roll of negatives. God, am I so grateful that I did. I have over 2000 numbered and dated envelopes that tell me exactly where my pictures are.

Wishing and dreaming is nice, but they can't come true if you don't do something about it. So get out there and do it yourself. I'm not rich and famous [well maybe a little famous] but I'm satisfied that I actually accomplished what I set out to do.

Go for it!

Totally agree with what you said.

I dont think there has ever been a better time for the independent musician and I think creating an online buzz to get the offline investment is an excellent way to start.

I was on my own from day one and taking myself down the park when I was 3. I have autonomy in my blood and creativity etched into my bones and life sculpted entrepreneurial bent into me. So you're not alone DS, I'm there on the same planet.

I always wanted to be the "ROCKSTAR". Have a big house, cars, touring, etc.. Well as I got older things changed. I got married had kids did the get a job to provide kind of thing. The one thing that never left me was the desire to make music. I help myself by being realistic and knowing that getting into this business on the "ROCKSTAR" scale is a long shot, so I am happy with selling a few songs here and there on CD Baby or Amazon. Believe in yourself and your music and the rest will come.

In my career, I've been the most depressed when I've waited around for someone to do something for me. A) Because they never do, and I end up feeling disappointed, and B) because I leave myself in a powerless situation and that doesn't feel good, and C) because my career stays at a stalemate.

Unfortunately, it's taken a few times of my hitting that place of disappointment to realize that I need to take matters (and keep them!) into my own hands. It's empowering, productive, and it works!

Thanks for the reinforcement and encouragement, Derek.

-shannon curtis

In my opinion, it's up to you: Do you really believe in yourself (your music, your message, you send through your music)? I am naturally fighter: no one helps me - I become even stronger.

Right on Derek.

Wisdom and years will teach you that nobody cares about you or your problems more than you do.

You ARE in control of your own destiny. Stay humble, find happiness in being humble. And the only gifthorse you will truly find will be yourself. And with that attitude, you may actually find a surprise at somepoint in your life thats positive:>)

First off. A band gigging at 5 grand a month is already a success. That's a position where your the one who should be helping others. Not the reverse.

I'm used to not getting that kind of help. Frankly I no longer expect it. There are millions of artists looking for everything from agents to investors. Crabs striving for the barrel top that can only support a few.

Instead I focus on creating or achieving those goals on my own merit. I've played most positions in the industry simply out of necessity. Can't find an agent? I became one. Needed web designers? I learned how to do it myself. Need investors? I wrote my own marketing and business proposals. Want radio play or exposure? I built my own network superstructure and included media outlets I helped develop. After years of this stubborn determination I became the "go to' guy. Right now I can sit back and look at a genre I helped create. There are trends and artist success stories I have had a major role in bringing into fruition. They would never have happened had I not been so bullish and single minded.

Success doesn't happen overnight. Normally it takes a team of people working behind the scenes to make all these things happen. The habit I've learned in the past 2 decades is to not depend on any help at all. If it comes great. if it doesn't I'll do it myself. If I don't know how I'll learn. Using that philosophy I've become more confident in my abilities and much more well rounded as an artist and businessman. I may never be the best at anything. But I can do damn near everything on my own. That in itself is an inspiration.

"Nobody’s going to help you. Does that encourage you or discourage you?"

The statement is simple and true. Count on NO HELP. Then use that as the reason to learn as much as possible in order to achieve what you may call success..

Max

www.MaximumImpactPoetry.com

I still remember the first time someone told me no one was going to help me. Actually, what they said was more encouraging. They said "Build it like no one is going to help you, because their not. Then when it starts working you will be surprised how many people can find the time to "help" you." They were absolutely right. It was frustrating at first but once I owned the reality of it there was a surprising side effect... creativity. Once I stopped waiting on people to do things for me it forced me to be creative and I actually started to get things done myself. What I found was that since I hadn't been an insider I didn't understand all the "rules". It turns out that was an advantage, I ended up being a little unorthodox and it's working. In the first 6 months I sold 1500 records, played 40+ gigs and quite may day job selling insurance. After my first full year I had my first employee in America and three VA's in India. On the other hand, I have spoken with countless other musicians about my path to independence and they just feel overwhelmed and fearful. I have even had them tell me they would just rather wait to be discovered. I've learned most people underestimate themselves and overestimate the difficulty of the task.

It discourages me... but I keep going.

No question it's discouraging.

I do think the kind of help this person was asking for is unrealistic. And I do believe you need to do EVERYTHING you can yourself to make things happen. In fact, not getting help from the very people I expected it from was the thing that motivated me to do it myself and finally get some results.

Having said that, it's a terrible world to live in when you know that no matter how hard you work, how prepared you are, and how specific you are about the help you need, there's still slim to no chance that any portion of that help will be available.

Successful artists with money to burn need to step up. While it's admirable to donate time & money to worthy causes, this business needs patrons and mentors, and not just people looking for a quick buck up front.

Let me repeat that last line, because it's that important:

This business needs patrons and mentors.

This business needs patrons and mentors.

In my experience the music industry is the same as any other business, people will help you if you pay them:) What musicians always seem to forget is that the old recording contract standard fayre from a major record company had floors and ceilings all designed to keep or claw back the artists earnings. In most cases artists think they are getting help but in reality they are not they are getting services and a loan. On that basis the artists can determine their own business model now withour having to payback Sony 100K in five years time....So to answer your question nobodys going to help you, but it shouldnt discourage you if you have any sense:)

It's a matter of belief in what you do and an underlying sense that there are people out there who will help you. It's just a matter of persistent searching for the right people and not just throwing your product into the wind and hoping it lands in the right lap. We are all intrinsically connected at the core level and the seeking of the connections is the trusty fun part!

Necessity is the mother of invention. No one helps you - makes you figure it out on your own. Sink or swim.

I have never had much help. and it has NEVER stopped me. Now.. company/support-less i have to be creative in my business dealings. i have built a network of amazing artists and we all help each other out. there are no excuses anymore. no room to be lazy. you either get it done or you don't. i think its weeded those in it just for the greed from the artists in it for heart and soul reasons. at this point if you choose to attempt this then you must really really love it. because its a steep uphill climb. but i LOVE THE CHALLENGE. :)

no one EVER gave me anything ive done. i was engineering a major label record at 21 years old because of an intense drive. discouragement can be very tiring. it can weigh you down and depress you. but, none of the greatest artists i love were just handed things. they created the greatest thing they had with what they had. like my friend natalia fabia says.. it doesn't matter if its cheap paint and cheap canvas or amazing expensive brushes she just has to make a brilliant painting anyway. no excuses.

just skimmed through some of the other comments...quite a variety.

overall, I agree...specifically, I'm gonna do it regardless!...and this literally correlates to my 'painting/writing' analogy... just because one isn't famous or receiving significant financial rewards doesn't mean one is not 'authorized' to do it.

One has to simply be very passionate about it, or there's no reason to be doing it all.

Yet needless to say, wouldn't it be great to receive more credit/acknowledgment from one's work (and yeah, of course even some financial compensation/reward).

But again, regardless, you have to be deeply passionate, it has to be what drives you, what keeps you alive & going no matter what.

Different but related...and granted, most of us presumably know this already, but the most regrettable aspect of the 'music industry' (most specifically in this culture anyway) is the obvious corporate influence, as it's virtually impossible to penetrate this institutionalized structure as it exists.

Consider the 'seed' quality of the emerging 'newer' music/sounds of the mid-60's; it was a distinct cutting through/penetrating the rather vapid culture reproduction at the time.

In truth, there really hasn't been any significant 'shift' like this since that time (just imagine for a moment that if in the mid/late -60's we were primarily hearing music on the radio only from the 1920's/30's, well essentially this is where we're at now today, it's basically that very same thing now...today we're essentially hearing culture reproductions/trillion variations of the very music which became institutionalized in the mid/late 60's !).

Point being, there really must be some signficant break-out of this/away from this, with some dramatic shift into something genuinely new...this 'merry-go-round' vicious circle we seemed to trapped in only breeds what is essentially a massive amount of pollution on the landscape/our psyches (and at the risk of getting too far out there, in my personal opinion that vicious circle culture reproduction is indeed a VERY fertile place for ultimately breeding fascism < that 'lock-step', same old/same old, round & round, in the end, it's fundamentalism < and sorry if this bums anyone out, but regrettably, I'm afraid it's just the facts).

Ultimately, we as independent music artists (any artists!) have to be the ones to break outa this vicious circle and bend it into an upward spiral, it ain't gonna happen via any corporate acknowledgment/encouragement...(and yeah, predictably that'll happen eventually when the 'new' music is ready to be co-opted).

I went through a phase when I would have found this answer maddening. But the fact is it's true! So why bother getting frustrated over what is. That frustration becomes a fairly useless distraction.

These days I'm thinking more along the lines of, how can I ask anything of anyone else that I'm not willing to do myself? It's really humbling to be out in the world doing this thing all alone, knowing that you have something special to share and knowing that it is a totally uphill battle getting anyone to care about it... but there are great moments too and the journey is so rich...

Thank goodness for the journey. That's all I can say.

Music has absolutely nothing to do with money. It is spiritual. I have written over a thousand songs. I know what I'm talking about. I've had 4 Record deals (Creation, Ministry Of Sound, Universal and, erm, Gut) played Glastonbury, Reading, been on TV with Alan McGee. I've Been played on Radio 1 at 10.30 in the morning and thought that I was going to be famous. I've been critically acclaimed twice for the first two My Computer records which are destined to be cult classics in 20 years time and thought that I was going to be famous. I'm not famous and I don't want to be. I never did (ok, maybe when I was 16) I love writing songs and I love recording them and I absolutely love performong them. Everything else about music (Businessmen, drink my wine...Bob Dylan circa the 60's)sucks shit.

Life's like this. You need to eat and you need to sleep. If you can't do either you are in trouble. If you can do something good for society, then all the better.

Love is a business.

Fun is a business.

Music...is a business, a rotten one. Always has been, always will be.

Musicians are victims of their own ego's. If you really love music and write it because you want to make other people happy...write it, record it, release it independantly and play it live wherever you can whenever you can. If 1 person shows up and likes it. Job done.

Sorry if this upsets you.

Get a life!

I'm a 56 year old singer/occasional song writer, and only got serious about songwriting a year and a half ago, nobody helped me. I recorded my first Country album last year in my bedroom. I have that and a Christmas album on sale in a few record shops this Christmas. It's been a rough road up to now, rejected, ignored, but It only makes me try harder. Why?, because i believe in the talent i have. Right now some of my emails(and I've sent a lot)are being answered. People are beginning to realize I can write songs. There's no contract on the horizon, hell! I'm not even giggin right now. But Its moving 100% up on last year, and thats something. Sure I've got sick and fed up with the rejection. But I have my dream, and I want to realize it. Follow yours, and dont let anyone put you off. God bless Michael

Music is full of challenges and at times Road Blocks that tend to get frusterating,the most important thing is not to let it take the Fun out of the Music,Always keep learning and live for the challenge.

~R STAVELY COUNTRY~

I find it "encouraging" in terms of feeling a sense of relief, because it's one less thing to worry about. Does that make sense to you? The idea that nobody is going to help me means that, whatever gains I make are a result of my own work, and so I've truly earned those gains. And conversely if things aren't working I know who is responsible, as well.

It *also* means that if someone actually *does* step in to help, that help is truly valued and appreciated and I've let those people know how much it means to me for the things they've done.

So. Short answer: Encouraged.

Hello Derek,

It's called believing in yourself. Until you do, no one else will. :)

The realization that it's all up to me came years ago. In other countries (in Europe, Asia) talented artists are subsidized and talented kids are placed in special schools. This is the USA.

How do I make a living at this? By being really good; by being versatile; by sharing my knowledge; by reaching out to help other musicians.

Q: How do you get really good?

A: By honing your craft and PRACTICING.

Q: How do you get to be versatile?

A: By using every single skill you've got.

Q: How does one share one's knowledge?

A: By offering that knowledge to those who seek it. (I get paid a lot for this. I also do it for free.)

Q: How does one help other musicians?

A: By taking the time/making the effort to pass on what you've learned.

I value my independence about as much as my health.

I used to pray other people would step in and prop my music career up, but now I'm actually grateful they didn't.

I adore the creative challenges every day of making my music grow.

thanks Derek,

Elizabeth

Nobody's going to help you, in the sense that nobody is going to do something for you that isn't also going to benefit them. (Except maybe Mother Teresa, if you're diseased and starving.) But the real question should be "What have I got that's going to benefit somebody else, and who is that somebody esle?". Finding the answer(s) to that question is how you find allies. If you have allies, you don't need charity.

I've spent a lifetime of listening to "No, you can't." Yet among those people I seem to be the last one standing.

When Derek asks for responses he gets them!

Almost always encouragement because it reaffirms my belief that self-sufficiency=empowerment. Know how to do it first so you can decide if you want to handle the job or delegate it to someone else...with the ability to tell them how you want it done. Go Muckwork!

One of the few things that has been a comfort to me in pursuing a full-time 'job' as a musician is the perception that it is all up to me to create the music career of my choosing. We all have the ability to try to shape our lives the way we want and I think we should approach our music careers no differently.

This sort of thing is really up to the individual, and what they want out of music/life, but for me it boils down to happiness. I am happy playing music an writing songs in pursuit of the magic that it can create for me and other people. Creating good, and bettering myself as an artist and person, is the goal and all the other business things that go into being a musician are just additional challenges that play a part in meeting that goal.

For me to accomplish the things I wanted in life, and also succeed at achieving my musical aspirations, my answer was to convert a retired school bus into a motor home/tour bus that offers all the comforts of home and runs on waste vegetable oil. I researched the idea for a year before I decided to make a move on purchasing a bus. I am now two years into the project and anticipate at least another year of construction. I have already learned so much about so many things outside of music that the experience has been rewarding on many different levels.

The only person standing in the way is me and I am encouraged by that. I am documenting the process online if anyone is interested...http://www.ChrisMerkley.com/The_Bus.html

Good luck to all in whatever it is you're pursuing!

When I was in about third grade my teacher asked what I wanted to be when I grew up. I said that I wasn't sure of what but that if I had to sweep the floors to get involved with whatever I decided to do, that would at least get me in the door. I'd work my way up from there. Even then I raked leaves and shoveled snow and mowed lawns and always had a little cash. That was about 1963 and I continued to work till 2000 when I decided to do music full time. Now my work is my play and I'm very happy. If what I produce in the studio pleases some, the rest will come. Hard work pays big benefits.

Although your statement, that no one will help, is a rather typical sentiment in this industry, I find that as with most everything else in my life, the so-called "realistic" view ain't necessarily so. Thank goodness I reject that attitude, otherwise I would not have already received so much of the help that has come my way. Does the expectation that people will help, stop me in any way, shape or form from being pro-active in my career? Does it stop me from moving forward and being the boss of my success? Of course not! I am the producer-writer-musician-company CEO-band leader and decision maker in my world and it's a wonderful thing! And guess what? Still I have been blessed with people who have helped move my projects forward

(which includes financial investment). So, does your statement encourage or depress me? I'd say I find it a depressing statement because (a) it sounds so sad, (b) I know from experience its not true, and (c) unfortunately many people will actually believe you. I would much rather hear a far more "realistic", (and much less absolute) statement that suggests it may not find that kind of help; or that one should not rely on such help. But to say that absolutely none exists until you become successful? Very un-realistic!

Great post! We all have a story that we tell ourselves to justify what is happening to our music careers. Personally, I know musicians that still cling to the ideal that all they have to do is produce that “brilliant” cd and the “industry” will come knocking on the door in a frenzy! Then when reality hits and there is no knock at the door, out come all the stories as to why they’re all wrong and just don’t get what we’re doing! My experience is that it’s always been a nobody’s interested in you until everybody’s interested in you music world.

The bottom line is the music business is one of the worst investments in the world so you cant blame investors for not investing. The best bet is to keep your expectations low and love what you do. If you make a living doing what you love then who cares about getting outside help. I work with some of the biggest names in Hip Hop and I make more than most of them without a Record Deal. I even release projects for them in between their label projects to make extra cash.

hi derek,

i think this is a "realistic" way to look @ the situation as an artist....

for me, as an artist my view is that this is my life's passion, work & outlet of my self expression....so i will do this no matter what.... i will keep putting out my "creations"....everywhere....& i am so excited by my spoken word, music, meditation cds and other forms of my creativity that i know others are also, and even more will soon be.

with this attitude i find the "right" people find you...they want to....

so, when you don't "need" it; whatever the "it" is..."it" is always there

peace & light

At 30 something in the '80s writing pop songs and "looking to make it" I would have found this discouraging and in that era - NO INTERNET, no iTunes and no independent affordable CD/music making. But now as a jazz/new age artist post 20 years later, not bothering to "crash" the pop consciousness, I take encouragement from that BUT, personally if I was making $5000 a month (did you say?) from my music I would be satisfied - I might even want to run back to solitude. I WOULD NOT be looking for a bigger career or "to make it" and so would not want the services of the commercial companies.

Which do you prefer more: creating, composing music and recording/playing or dealing with the mega-hassles of stardom?

Every step of the way we'll have to make up our minds or you won't enjoy your road.

Having said that: it still leaves me and some of us not in rock/pop with a problem. How to get enough "fans" or people to just stop long enough on the internet to take a listen let alone a download when we have no "media frenzy" - most people will run to You-Tube

I haven't tried that yet...

Yes, Derek Sivers writes good thought producing articles.

later, Michael Guy, CD AugustOceanOverture

Wow so many opinions on this.



I think it's a motivation to inspire me to keep working until someone can't resist helping, I've had many people tell me how they've been moved by my music, when your blessed to get an encouraging word it stokes the creative fire, thats true help.

I say move the world with music and don't stop if you stop you'll never know the potential or the real fulfillment.

Help yourself or no one else will, unless your just lucky or incredible.

I like your frank and honest answer.

It takes a thick skin to be in the music business. Waiting to get discovered? Forget it! Make people find you, but don't hide. The internet andf old fashioned posters/phone calls are still viable. Entertain yourself and the audience will probably be too.

Hey I know help is always good, but don't wait for something to fall out of the sky! Do what you gotta do until the opportunity meets your preparation.

www.myspace.com/txk2002

Be creative in art and business.

I am encouraged by the thought no-one else will know how to truly give me a break.

Why? Because its another area to express my creativity. I made a decision early in life to lead a creative lifestyle and I see music AND business as an outlet for that.

If you are looking for management you have to ask the question - If I were a manager would I want to manage a band or a bank? That's why there is a bank sub branch on every second corner and an un-managed band playing on alternative corners.

How would you know a good manager if you fell over them? Only by knowing what skills they require. Fortunately you can get to know that by studying management in the microcosm of yourself.

There are 3 parts to your sound

1. Your technique on your instrument

2. Who you put your sound with - how you gather a band and communicate with them

3. Where you put your sound - getting the music out there. Where you play and how you manage that to enable it to keep happening.

Its all creative and that inspires me.

I sway between both feelings, honestly, Derek! Some times I find the motivation to push, push, push and try and make my own success, and then other days I find myself tired of slogging through it all without any help and wonder "Why can't I have an agent/manager like so-and-so?" Of course, when I have those feelings I try to turn it INTO motivation by looking at what so-and-so is doing and seeing how I can replicate it in a way that works for me... so that maybe I will find myself at that next level and be able to inspire an agent or manager to come on board.

I also do try to utilize the help I DO have--like family and friends who are willing to be put to work if you just ask them. They can't do it all ALL the time, but when you have a big show coming up, or something specific you can put them to work on, they're almost always willing to do whatever they can.

Being a business unto yourself can certainly be a lonely and daunting task at times, but if you reach out and network, and "steal" ideas from the people whose success you want to mirror, it's far LESS lonely and daunting. That's what I would tell anyone who feels the "discouraged" sentiment.

No one cares about your career as much as you do. I've tried to prove this theory wrong many times and always come back to being my own CEO. That is the way to go...

If your friend was discouraged by your answer, then he's probably not going to stay the race!

In my opinion, you are dead right that no one is going to help you and it gets right back to "there is no such thing as a free lunch" and also that you have to be willing to "help yourself"

You HAVE to want to make it badly enough to get your butt in gear and work long and hard (like you) to promote yourself, create a buzz, sell yourself and your product and just keep on doing that until you succeed.

This is not for the weak of spirit, nor for the lazy.

Agents and managers do not rush to take you on for a client - UNLESS - your have already achieved a measure of success.

Of course not everyone wants the same level of "success".

If you hope to be extremely famous and sell millions of CDs you will have to pursue your dreams in that direction. It will be a long, hard road. No one will help you.

If you just love to write songs, and share your music with others and measure success by how much enjoyment your work gives others, and perhaps sell a few CDs along the way, your aspirations will not be as demanding. However - still No one is going to help you do these things. You are still going to have to work hard, and do everything yourself.

I suppose I had a dream once that it would be fun to be famous and a million seller - but after a number of years of observing the music biz, seeing what happens to people's dreams, and seeing some of the famous chart toppers come tumbling down in ashes, I'm happy to settle for writing the songs that come to me from various sources, recording them, selling a few cds, going into a few song contests and getting honourable mentions, and pleasing people with the songs. ....

Oh yes, another source of satisfaction - being in command of an internet broadcasting station which allows me to -flying in the face of no one helping anyone (LOL) - play indie music where mainstream radio will not.

Hey Derek,

I'd want to know the truth so I did not waste energy barking up the wrong tree in a fantasy.

When you know what the reality is you can tackle something solid. Maybe take a list of great plus's that exist these days and add them to the challenges--such as global distribution a snap, costs very low, etc.

Kalib

Derek, you asked me to comment so here I go.

I am going to take address your friend's question - and then I will comment on your response.

The first question is: "How can I find a great/major booking agent?"

First of all, why is an agent required? Just curious. Do artists always require one?

"And how can I find an investor?"

Why does he want only 1 investor? How about 1,000 investors? or 10,000? Do they have to be called investors? What if they were TRUE FANS that ongoingly contribute to an artist's success?

And why does he need $500,000? What is this based on? Does he have a business plan that warrants that kind of funding? Is it going to be profitable? What is his proof (if any)?

Next, as to your response. I am aligned with most of it but personally, I do not think cynicism is required - it's just a simple reality check. Like a weather report.

Also, if he's really serious to hear people's contributions then he will naturally take the next step. If he was so easily discouraged by someone basically saying "Dude, why would I give YOU $500,000???"

And last but not least, I don't think anything has to be done alone - ever. It never has as far as I can tell.

And, I don't think it's true that "no one will help you until you're already successful." I just don't see much evidence for that. Just look at the number of responses on this post.

Nothing happens in a vacuum ;-)

Last, but not least, to answer your question: "Does hearing 'Nobody’s going to help you. It’s all up to you' discourage you or motivate you?" I answer with, NO it does not motivate me. But motivation is not what I am looking for - and neither is your friend. As far as I can tell he/she is looking for attention.

And they definitely got it! LOL

Best of luck to your friend.

There is much to learn.



-Vwodek

Good question this: when you think that nobody’s going to help you, does that encourage you or discourage you?

Maybe, in regards to what you are saying, the word 'cynicla' should be replaced with the word 'realistic'. Whatever the case, it gets a point across.

One thing to realizie is thatveryone has an agenda, even those who claim to be doing charityand, in the music biz, there's really no one doing that. Agents, managers and investors, especially the really good ones, are not going to be motivated to 'shell out' money, time or effort on anything that is not a proven success already. Damn, but it sure would be nice if you could just sit back, do nothing at all, and let others bring you 'to the top', but it ain't gonna happen, and I don't think that's a cynical thing to say at all.

If you aren't willing to do for you, then why should anyone else be interested in the doing? If you aren't up to the challenge, then, the bottom line is this...better go find something else to do. If, however, you love challenges, and don't mind tackling the obstacles that will definitelyu be in the way, and find it 'fin' to do all the stuff that needs to get done, then this is what you really should be doing, but, for the most part, in order to jump start a career, you really do have to do most of the dirty work yourself. Friends, fans and others may join in with you, and help you, and for no cost at all, but even heree, there's got to be something in it for them, and even here, you yourself still have to do whatever it takes to get things going cos, after all.

In short, once you realize that the onus is on yourself, and are willing to accept that and go for it anyway, it's really not too bad, and no reason to get discouraged.Like you said, as soon as you are successful, making that $5000 a month, sure,you are going to get all the help you want / need. Until then, though, better muck about yourself. Otherwise, it ain't gonna happen.

Good article and good point!

Bryan Anthony

www.wickmanmusic.com

Derek,

There was a time when those were very discouraging words...but with the gift of experience and learning as a DIY musician, they are honest and actually come as a relief.

No wonder the big agent hasn't come down from the sky with a great deal for me!

Also reminds me of when I was preparing to manufacture my first CD. I asked a friend who was kind of a venture capitalist to invest a small amount and the questions he asked me, as a venture capitalist made me realize that I didn't have a plan for paying it back. I was just "hoping" I could.

At first I felt stymied, and then I realized that I had credit on my own personal credit cards. I talked it over with my nervous wife and put up as much cash as I could from gigging and teaching and paid the rest on my own credit.

Then I worked my behind off making sure I was going to pay off that bill and not make my family suffer for my indulgence!!

And I did. So far, every recording project has paid for itself, and even made money. (That's 10 recordings!).

It also taught me to get a business credit card so I could charge these kinds of expenses to the business, where they belong, instead of on a personal card with card repairs and household costs.

I still work my tusch to pay them off.

The honest word just feels good...

but the sense of loneliness does creep around trying to convince me that I am alone, and what I do doesn't matter.

If I had an agent, I don't think I'd be less lonely!! That I've got to work on myself.

This is what I do; it’s just that simple to me. I figured out along time ago, you don’t retire from this gig! But I do get help; it comes from other musicians wanting to play my music for no pay on occasion and a caring wife that helps me in so many ways.

But to expect that someone will come along and bankroll my music endeavors, well that’s not going to happen. So I get up everyday and try to write the best damn song I can, that’s all I can do.

Peace!

I'm encouraged. It's a great realization... though I still forget it at times.

I think some people don't get the point. It doesn't mean you're in the cold, all by yourself. But you do have to be in charge of your compass.

Thanks for the reminder.

+++ Joe +**

It's depressing AND exciting! It sucks to do everything yourself, but that's the only way it works. If becoming a successful musician was easy, everyone would do it. And then it wouldn't be easy anymore.

Derek, once again, you are proving that you are one of the great sages of these days. I say that because we've all been there ... I can't tell you how many times I've dreamed about how much I can do with a major agent and a sponsor with deep pockets to take my career to the next level.

I'm a work in progress, still optimistic about getting my songs heard by everyone.

But, when I reflect upon the things I'm most proud of in my life, it's always from times where my "other" self had to show up. When there's no one around to "save me," I step up my game plan and was there to save myself.

Thank you for the good food for thought!

I find these thoughts helpful, because they are realistic and can only help me do thinks right. They also make me think that building up something from the bottom, starting slow and seeing it grow, is nice. Who thinks that a big flower is always more beautiful than a small flower? When I pressed my CD's (6 x 1.000), I was expecting that they would sell well. They didn't, and this fact helps me to focus on my music again. If I want people to remember me for something, it's not for selling a lot of CD's - but for making good music :o)

Hi, Derek and everyone-

What a great question to put to us all! And the answer to it is a deeply personal one.

Each of us has his or her own reasons for pursuing a career in music, and these reasons will have a pivotal impact on whether the "realities" (as we seem them, as they are portrayed to us, etc.) of the music business will be a source of inspiration and encouragement of a source of disappointment and discouragement.

In my case, besides the incredible feeling of fun I get from the intellectual challenges that music provides, it is the deep and intimate connection with my fellow human beings - fellow musicians as well as audiences and others, that gives me the deepest spiritual and emotional fulfillment from making music.

That being the case, conversations around music and the business of music that disparage or minimize this human connection are to me discouraging.

Saying things like "you're on your own", "only you can help you", "you're the only who can do this for yourself" are to me statements which describe a distance between people, a loneliness, a separateness. And I find those ideas and sentiments to be both false (based on my experience and beliefs about human nature and life), and also saddening as they can instill in people a hardness of heart, a cynicism, a negativity which is antithetical to creation and performance of great music.

There is no denying that there are certain things that each human can only do for him or herself (like breathing, practicing ones instrument, taking care of ones health). However, ultimately it is an emphasis on the deep and eternal connection between people and all things that brings about the best in all of us. Emphasizing our separateness and our "alone-ness" is, for me at least, therefore not the way to bring out the best and the most productive and creative side of me.

But again, this is a deeply personal issue, and each one of us is different in how we react to others and what brings out the best in us.

~Arun

Arun Luthra - saxophonist, composer, arranger

www. ArunLuthra. NET/music.html

myspace.com/arunluthra

facebook.com/people/Arun_Luthra/749669061

cdbaby.com/cd/arun

Motivated.

A bank won't lend money without a down payment - not because they need the money, but because they want to see that you have the ability to pony up at lease SOME cash.

Music is like that - you have to get to where you don't need an agent before they'll be of any real use. Derek has some great advice about that, as well; "Don't Suck". Putting the time into your craft is the equivalent of a down payment (by the way, he and I are both talking about ALL aspects of the craft, not just playing well, but showing up on time, being sober, following up with contacts, etc).

It's VITAL to get out of the mindset that other people have more impact on your career than you do.

"Plan the work, then work the plan."

Tony Barker

"He'd wanted me to fly my mind, and act on what I've known for all these years. I'd failed a Test of Faith, or so it seemed..." - From "The Way It Is In Dreams" - Tony Barker CD, "All In" http://cdbaby.com/cd/tonybarker

It's a sobering reality that every musician must embrace. This reality makes you ask the question, "how bad do I want this?" Ultimately, there are some incredible circumstances that have to come together for someone to "make it" but it really comes from hard work and raw determination and love of your art. You have to believe more than anyone else, and you have to be okay when you don't get help from even the people you would've sworn would be beating down your door to help. Ultimately, people will come out of the wood work to embrace you and laud you once you have some Benjamins and get some time on the radio--ie. becoming a name. But do or die, baby, if it is to be it's up to me. Live it. I'm not withholding the reality of those blessed people who do breeze into our lives and are of great help, but you can't count on that as your driving force. Be who you are because who you are is art. And who you are is unique in this world. I get a ton of wind in my sails by networking and being encouraged by other musicians who are in the trenches w/ me. Anyway there's my Thursday rant. Believe it!

Until I reached my mid-20's, I was still caught up in the idea of "making it". I did all the things you're supposed to do and learned 2 things. First, time spent trying to get someone else to notice me was time AWAY from the thing I loved most - music. And secondly, I noticed the people who were "making it" weren't very good, and hadn't paid they're dues - many had never even performed live (eg spice girls, avril lavign. It's just a crap shoot run by people who don't care for music. So I quit trying and just focused on making music . . PERIOD. I've been very happy and satisfied ever since.

Derek! it's a relief. most think the worst anyone can say is 'no.' lol. my experience is that 'yes' can be far worse, if one needs time or control...

if someone wants to pay, they want to Own; which seems fair...

I think your advice was On. AND. it stands with your other advice in the section on CD Baby. There is a chapter called DIY, I think- your other point was: we can't do it all alone. So while I may not have $500,000., I have my ingenuity, talent, and a growing group of people who can help in small ways....

Kid Rock did it with interns. Joni Mitchell booked her own shows and was her own roadie- while writing her first five albums.

As I understand it, the more I let someone else pay for my learning and development curve- the more they own and can take credit for my work (which is ok in 1 in 100,000 cases but...)


So. I'd rather know. Knowledge is power. Enthusiasm without knowledge can take us back in addition to never getting us forward (in my humble opinion).

Thanks Derek. It's hard telling the truth. We might succeed knowing the truth...cause the only thing harder than being honest, to me, it seems, is making it big as an honest person....

(well. like you. observation, not flattery)

stef

>>> Does that encourage you or discourage you ?

Makes me laugh ! If it were true then life wouldn't be possible...

Help is available. Just look for it...

Well, so what else is new? I don't feel heroic determination in the face of 'no help' just the same driven need to make music and continue whatever. Was it ever any different? people who aren't friends won't help you unless it makes business sense to them. It is hard but not suprising.

I find it to be a very lonely existance, realizing that nobody, not even band members, will pitch in. I've gone completely solo because of that, despite the facts that my voice isn't naturally good and that I never had aspirations to sing. I'd much rather play guitar in a rock n' roll band. But the decision was the only practical one. We can spend years looking for the right collaborators, or we can get things done and do them at a much faster pace than waiting around for others allows. So take charge, kick ass, do it better than anyone. Get good at the things you suck at. It's a war that is comforting. It never feels good to be a victim of others' laziness or lack of support/ambition. At least we die giving it our best shotwith no one to blame but ourselves if we fail. And all successes are ours to keep. Burning out, never fading away.

Hello Derek,

I am running into a matter right now where someone is illegally selling my music but thank god for

your company CDbaby because if it wasn't for your company the individual would probably be getting

all of my money and I wouldn't be getting any.

With my experience there are 3 types of people in this business,

1. A person who can help you out.

2. A person who will not help you out at all.

3. A person who will help you out

but at the same time trying to

make money off of you , like this evil person in New Jersey.

I disagree about a person making $5000 a week as a musician in order to acquire a booking agent.

I know several people with booking agents who are living from paycheck to paycheck.

It all depends on the individual.

Have a nice Christmas or

Hanukah:

Sincerely,

B.J Snowden

Wow, response number 294!

I'd say it neither discourages OR encourages me. Just reminds me to just focus on the music instead of looking for that "great booking agent" etc. Every hour on the computer is an hour not writing or playing music... now if you'll excuse me :-)

I think you find a way to make it happen for yourself. Maybe he should think about starting with 1% of that budget...That is where I would start. I would set my business up there and move one. Why should anyone invest in you if you don't have anything to show for it. Maybe that's where this person needs to start.

On another note, I have a question about microfinancing for musicians. I am about to release my 1st Full length Cd in about a month and finances may delay my project. I am about 20% away. I work full-time and have invested 80% of the money needed to create the album. I know I could do it but it would delay my project another month in a half. Do you have any thoughts on how I can generate the remaining 3K? My credit is not that great either. Any tips.....

Been doing it myself all these years... Bustin' my ass full time and around the clock. I feel good about the success I've made on my own. Best of luck to everyone in '09'...

Rob Anthony

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rob-Anthony/26803146584

http://www.myspace.com/robanthonymusic

http://www.robanthonymusic.com

Well, I'm with you fellers.. It's not just Music, it's everything! That whole get it done right, do it yourself is one of the things I'm always mindful of. Sometimes even when people do try to help, it doesn't make it any easier. You're grateful, and it doesn't mean you don't appreciate the help, but ultimately YOU are responsible for everything, good or bad, that happens.

I'll just focus on what I can do. That way, one day I can say 'I did that..' and know I did it to the best of my ability. I think that makes it all the more sweet if it comes off.

And if it doesn't? Oh well, I tried, when billions don't.. Like Derek said one other time,'Is your first CD/Album/Song the starter's flag or the chequered flag?'

It's Lap One for me, baby!

peacenlove to you all..

B-Dub

Having no-one but me to help has always motivated me. Being the "black sheep of the family" probably got me started. Even when i was signed to a record company, the only "help" i really had was to have someone else make decisions for me, which i disagreed with. Then, to top it off i was "helped" out of all of my royalties when the company went bust.

Being totally in control of my career means that i am in my comfort zone, where i call the shots, and i reap the rewards. Sure, it's somewhat slower than having a team at the helm, but i enjoy the process, and love a good challenge. I love for someone to say "it can't be done"...makes me all the more determined to find a way to do it :)

I fully expect that no one will help me, and I am quite used to it... infact, I prefer it... Most of the times when people do offer to help me with anything, I tend to refuse... I like doing things myself.... but then again I'm a pretty odd individual....

My two cents, take it how ya wanna...

Peace and Blessings,

-Él

for every artist who has quietly worked at their art and been 'successful' there must be a thousand more who weren't 'successful'. This doesn't negate the value of the thousand.

My experience is that you do get some help if your material 'hits the mark' but even so - your continuing daily effort must come from within. The idea that some fairy godmother is going to cover the costs of a tour is a bit naive... if people will pay to hear your songs, they aint going to be more inclined because you now have lighting and a tour bus. Fact is - you've proved nothing except that you're willing to be carried if you're looking for a handout.

The cold and pleasant truth is that the world owes you nothing - particularly not their ears and attention - and the motivation for ones creative effort shouldn't be dependent upon reward. Ah ... well... having said that, it's nice to be appreciated and it's also useful to have a day job just in case the world is too busy to listen :)

The honest answer is: It depends on which day of the week I find out the bad news. Initially, maybe the first day it's very discouraging. And it may take a few days for me to figure out my way around, over, or under the block. At worst, I may end up having to abandon my plan. In any event, I'll have to change my strategy.

maybe someone will start reading from the bottom of the list...thus our chance of being noticed..(or helped)..when all seems lost...perhaps by chance-(or destiny)..that making the best music actually 'means' something...and one day the 'stars will align'...alas..our 'help' comes..thanks derek..totally inspiring

it's always been a strugle trying to make it just like the economy i grew up poor i used a broom as my horse and a piece of wood as a gun playing outside,i used to put sugar between 2 pieces of bread, you have got to be good at what you do,be ready and someone will come your way so it dosen't matter if i get help or not just keep pushing and keep the faith baby!peace!!

It "encourages" me in the sense that it motivates me. It's like I WILL show people that I can do this, that anything is possible if you put your mind (and your effort) to it. Defying people who say it's "impossible" or "difficult" can be a great motivation. I've got my new demo on over 160 radio stations in the past 7 months, sheerly through my own efforts, partially because a publisher here in Tokyo told me it didn't sound good enough to get airplay. I showed her. ;) However, now an A&R person has told me that labels aren't as impressed by radio airplay as they are by sales figures and TV exposure, so that's my next challenge. It does get discouraging sometimes when you take your eye off the task in front of you and start worrying about the "big picture", but I've really noticed solid proof of the "new age" theory that people will help you if you help yourself. I've really noticed that the harder I work, more and more strangers and opportunities appear "out of the blue" offering to help me. So it's not true that no one will help you, but as the old adage goes, you have to help yourself fist.

Here is the second installment of a home made documentary that I'm making about my quest to get to the top -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugdOJ_RXsLU&feature=channel_page

Best,

Laurier

Derek, once again you show more wisdom than just about anyone I know or have met in regards to this thing we call the music business. It all boils down to that (it's up to us and no-one else), and the sooner we realize and recognize it, the better off all of us musical types will be. I love the story of Les Paul (the electric guitar genius.) He didn't sit around waiting to be discovered, but went to New York and set up in the entrance foyer of the large building where top musical types would hear him, and sure enough, was hired on the spot. Not that all of us are that talented (: but it shows the type of daring that needs to happen if we are going to go anywhere. Or as one of my Christian friends put it, "How can God guide your steps if your feet ain't movin'?" Appreciate you, man.

Tom N Tierney

www.myspace.com/tomntierney

I love the words, "God Bless The Child that has His Own,"and I love being self sufficient.I made my cd to please my self and if others like it and buy it that's an added blessing. Most people are too busy being selfish to help others without a great reward. I do not expect it.

We live in the age of the independent artist, we have to do it ourselves, but we don't have to do it alone.

So that article makes me very Happy!

This relates to the old KRS-One, Hip-Hop philosophy of self reliance. Where you don't reach out for help to no one, you find all your help from yourself. This is important because that way you don't get disappointed when no one helps you and you realize that all the power you need comes from yourself.

I actually am one of those who panic slightly at the idea of handing over responsibility, mostly because in the past if I didn't do it myself it didn't get done - I'd love to be proven wrong though! Truth is, no-one is going to care as much about your passion as you are.

But it seems like your friend had a particularly naive attitude - looking for $500,000 investors? Wow. Most labels wouldn't give even their most promising acts that much.

It's good to be forced to do everything yourself up to a point, but after a certain level of success is reached you do need others. But yeah, I like knowing exactly what's going on & feeling like it's up to me. It's much scarier to have a label or a manager who don't return calls! :)

then you're really stuck...

I remember a few years ago that fact really dawned on me- nobody is going to help me- nothing is going to be handed to me on a platter- I think its just a process of growing up understanding a little more of the reality of how this world and of course this industry works- the question then becomes- So if nobody is going to help me what am I going to do about it? I think that the kindest gift a person can give sometimes is a reality check- as tough as it may seem- it can create an objectivity that is vital to decision making and growth- art is so subjective- artists are often also incredibly subjective (as well as self absorbed and ego bound!)However the voice of reason doesn't quench hope it helps create realistic achievable goals that can continue expanding step by step... Hope in turn is the great motivator essential in any journey of discovery. In short that opening statement Nobody is going to help you- for me rings true- having said that- one of the things that I am continually observing about the Derek Silvers ethos is that it swims against the tide and is an extremely helpful and supportive one- so huge thanks!

Truth is ,No one here probably wanted hear that. I came outta the sixity's big deal era till few year back record companys froze , but awesome new's is realitys strength as the book The Art Of War sun tuz loved knowing his ways to loose thus he was very strong victorioues warrior .Fought less too. he knew when food was plentyful i.e. his soldiers fed.."Season" vehical's not caught in rut's traveling . "straight dedication". (Iniciate/ completion).Satisfaction win ,or loose.It's the next level of accomplishment !!(know yourself, your objective, how to get thier)

Aleee

I've never expected anyone to help so occasionally if someone does in some small way it's a nice surprise. I don't find it encouraging or discouraging to know that it's up to me, it's just the way it is. But what *really* encourages me is when someone is just plain nasty/discouraging/dismissive. That really fires up the "I'll show you!" attitude.

The less help I have, the more it motivates me, all things considered. I LOVE a challenge. If something is going to take years of blood, sweat, and tears to make work, BRING IT ON. It makes success that much sweeter.

What I do in music is for self gratification. It is not the main focus in my life. If I am successful great, wheather I get help or not will not deter me from doing it because it pleases me. That's what motivates me.

Robert

No one has ever really helped me before, so why should they now? I have learned to self-motivate, get creative, plan, take action, pick myself up from the dumps & pat myself on the back. It's a lonely world! However, I have found ways to target new markets that suit what I am able to do, still maintain a job but I am performing 2-3 nights a week. It would be great to get someone to do the legwork, but I am not waiting on anyone! I feel empowered!

I am always encouraged by the thought of helping myself, first of all, it limits communication errors, downtime, and money paid to someone who is distracted.

I'm a huge believer in the individual.

and success has come from hard work and the right information.

Happy holidays Derek ! !

it encourages me... motivates me to kick ass, and the rewards are that much better when you succeed this way!

In my whole music carreer I can't say that I have ever expected anyone to just invest in me so I am neither encouraged or discouraged. If I want gigs I know that I have to go out there and get them. If I have what I consider to be a good song I know that I am the one that has to somehow find someone who might wish to record it. Any big star always has had to prove themselves first. In other words the guy with the money has to see dollar signs when he sees or hears you perform your material.

Gary

Damn (and avoid) the torpedoes -- full speed ahead!

Hey Derek!

Good post. The thought doesn't occur to me often. Many years ago, the question to myself would have been "Who can I/we find to help this thing along?" I posed that question to myself because there was something already in place and working toward my benefit and to the benefit of folks I was working with, usually in bands. I simply found that people will step up to help when I already have something to offer.

Fast forward many years later to these days and times. With the advent of the Internet and all that it offers, I feel a statement more than the question that you pose. That statement is "I am free to do things as I see fit." Which means that I can do a lot or a little towards my career, anytime that I choose. And I find that comforting for some reason. When I do a lot, many things happen. When I do a little, just a few things happen. But the point here is that I keep things happening and going forward no matter what.

The older folks in the music industry gave me some advice many years ago when I was a youngster. They told me to learn how to do as many things as possible within my chosen field(s). Good advice. It turns out that the knowledge that I've gained over time has proven to be invaluable. A great help not only to myself, but of great help to so many that I have met and worked with.

As for your friend looking for an investor, I suggest that this blog post by Bob Lefsetz be read for some further insight -

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2008/12/14/corey-smith/

I don't always agree with what Bob has to say, but there seems to be some good food for thought in many of his blogs.

I am willing to bet that many of the men and women who have posted responses to this blog know very much how to do more than just one thing in the music industry. Today's world of music demands this. And along the way, I am sure that they have not only helped themselves, but many other people along the way. Whether they realize it or not. And that's a very good thing indeed.

I will leave you all with a great poem. I copied it in large letters and put it up on my wall where I can see it every day. It goes like this -

"If you have a talent, use it in every which way possible.

Don't hoard it.

Don't dole it out like a miser.

Spend it lavishly like a millionare intent on going broke."

Brendan Behan-Irish playwright

Happy Holidays to all.

JL

Good answer that. Honest and to the point. I've always held that if you can't do it where you are, you can't do it. The music business never paid me much, monetarily. Teaching did. Now I do a lot of volunteer work because I absolutely hate having to fit into someone else's mold. The rewards for doing my music my way have been an enormous satisfaction.

Someone is waiting for help until now? It´s impressive.

These days we need to be jack of all trades. No way out.

That's what I believe: Work hard. This is what impulse me.

I once received a card that stated, "Do the thing and you will have the power".

This is more true in the music profession than anywhere else. Go for it!

1. i help myself startng from nothing, then 5 cents to 10 dollars basking, then invest on my cds and dvd, then someone invited u and booking, then u organize ur conerts, travel...

2. poor people help u, they understand what ur music saying. they be ur audeinces first, they give u a hiden pray which is powerful.

3. God help u, He knows what ur need.

4. be a singing bird, sing everyday, improve everyday.

Which ever way, I've decided I have to keep singing, it's like I have to breath. It was said once, "if only the best birds sang, the forest would be silent", If it's in you, you have to keep letting it pour out.

A couple years ago I was sitting in a major producer's office with the blessing of him listening to my (then) latest CD, "Tribal Nation". He loved it! Then he told me that since I was over the age of 27, the record company would never sign me. Lets see. . .I can improve the music, put on phenomenal shows, and have hundreds if not thousands of people coming to the concerts, and make over $5,000 monthly doing shows, but I could not become younger than 27. Actually, I am eternal, thus ageless, but it takes a strong mind to go there with me.

Anyway, I look at it as simply a door that is not for me to go through. There are other paths, but trust God, yes.

I think it has to do with passion and love. What is it for you? If it is music, keep going and it doesn't matter. The smiles, the tapping of the audience's feet, etc. Those are the priceless rewards and benefits.

But I still would like to have a manager, agent, record contract, whatever. . .I will work to that end, always believe, never give up. . .but enjoy the journey in the meantime.

Damn right your not going to get any help until you already have something to offer them. And these days what you have to offer is going to have be very attractive.

Sure - the thought of other people (Even family members and friends)not going to help you might be a bit discouraging at first. As soon as you get done sobbing about all that - grab yourself by the ears and pull your head out of you buttocks and motivate.

It's honest. I know I like honesty. The questions you responded with were both discouraging and motivating. I guess it would depend on your tone of voice.

I have always known that nobody was going to help me. Always endured the pain of people not understanding where I was coming from. Realized early on that the dream of some mystery person / patron was not going to plop 500,000.00 or the going rate of 1 million into my lap just because they like the way I played my harp.

And I learned, learned, learned, that everybody wants you to do it for free... because you looooooove what you do!

You can't eat free, you can't drive free, you can't play free(instruments are expensive, You can't live free. House payments family etc. etc.

So get a day job Already! One that you can tolerate. One that limits take home work, and extra curricular meetings. One that you can predict the kind of time off you need so you can really make your living doing what you love to do.

Then you can go out on a limb, try the things you have always wanted to try. Play gigs on street corners, nursing homes, by the lake, in a tree. Say yes to everything (paid / unpaid)because you don't know who's listening, who's got money jingling around in their pocket for a birthday bash, company banquet, Anniversary....

Get yourself known, Use the internet and learn, learn, learn how to pull yourself up and out of the talented but unnoticed, unknown category!

What is success? Making a million dollars a year or making that sad sack at the back table start laughing? Playing a sad song in a noisy bar and suddenly hearing the place go terrifyingly quiet? Are those people actually listening to me? You only need so much money; you can never have too many friends. Anyway, I'm not a performer--what I want to know is how do I get other people to sing my songs? (It'd probably help if I sang them myself instead of other people's songs--but their songs take me to places I've never been; my songs just take me to where I've already been.) Have fun. Enjoy. To hell with the agents.

I've thought that this was a time when we have to do it. There has been a paradigm shift. Maybe musicians can make a living like regular folks instead of bouncing on the past bipolar up and down , you're either a king or a pauper. Maybe this new shift will bring about a middle class to music and musicians.

The moral of the story is become a physician, Lawyer, Therapist, Engineer. Then do the music you choose rather than corporate sponsored toodlings

Derek, you are teaching them how to fish while others (like Peggy, #209) give them fish to eat. Different approach, both valid, but with different outcomes.

Okay, Derek, let me ask YOU a question.

I'm a talented, experienced author and songwriter. I've been doing my thing for twenty years. Even so, I've learned over that time, from you and other sources, what it really takes to succeed.

I have five children to support, and I know what kind of life I want to live. I want to be around my family and offer them a stable, safe existence and a father who's there. I made a purposeful decision to live this kind of life. It wasn't something I found myself in.

That being said, I still have my art. I still work, and I do what I can. I've got a website, www.adamcole.net, where I post my music, my self-published books.

I know for a fact that I can't really be successful, find my audience, do what needs to be done to bring in money with my work, as long as I'm living the kind of life I want and my family needs.

So if I know that it's all up to me, and also that I can never do what needs to be done, where does that leave me?

I'm not looking for sympathy. It's just a confusing place to be.

Yours truly,

Adam Cole

Hi Derek no way can this be agreeable to me. There's an assumption that everyone measures success by money. However in the case cited the answer is appropriate based on that assumption and the description of his needs.

Was'nt it you who said that your aim was simply to have record shop and be of service to friends selling cds? Which my view is THAT was the success, everything else was a well earnt bonus[more success]. Again be reminded of the Biology "Proffessor" who broke down in tears mumbling " all he wanted to do was play the violin"

For me this is how my approach to this question is answered. I am "SOMEBODY", so SOMEBODY is going to HELP, STARTING with ME, which will attract its like, another SOMEBODY. [This is not being "punny" with words, but for real]. Though some would call this +ve thinking myself does'nt, none the less that woud be a useful direction.

These days most peoples only measurement for success they use is money and as a result ANY business is motivated by this at present commodity, MR Madoff tried to makeoff with money, did he get far? obviously to most people he's a success or was? not my view necessarilly, If he deliberately duped others HE SUCCEEDED, if he did not intend to get caught then he was'nt AS successful there.[for me Failure is a Fantasy, a song soon to be released].

So only success exists [tell your friend from me] Small ones OR large ones, nothing else. NOBODY DOES NOT EXIST AT NO TIME AT NO PLACE NOWHERE..

Yes language can be a beast but we have to learn to ride it like just LIKE SUCCESS however small it may be and if you dont see the small ones be lucky not to see the large because it may blind you, is this not what the "Papperatzi" feed on? on the the "successful"?

Could go on Derek "nuff" for now, The boat reminds me of one built by me, having no previous experience, how's that for a success, if you'd like a pic. let me know.

OZ

Nobody's gonna stop me from making music.If they help,they help!If not it's o.k.Music is my food and I believe in it.It's like breathing for me so I wo'nt wait for anybody to make some muse...The most important thing is to work seriously to make something valuable and interesting for me and then others!

I feel that that answer is definately encouraging. It means that my destiny is in my own hands. I personally don't want too many peoples hands on my baby anyway. The answer also keeps me grounded. I don't know about anyone else but sometimes I really do wish I would win the lotto, or I find a bunch of money, but at the end of the day I'm not going to be stagnet, waiting on that situation to fall in my lap.

To me music comes as naturally as breathing. I would write music whether anyone else listened to it or not. Marketing is the hardest part of writing music. Hard work, persistence and luck still may not result in any financial measurement of success but I've been writing music for years because of internal motivations, not external. Gary A. Edwards www.edwardsmusicpublishing.com

Hi, I didn't read all the comments but I read Adam Cole's one, and that's where I am at too. If I want to write and record my music, and have work and be there for family, there is simply no time left at the end of the day to promote my music or be my own booking agent. So I am excited and frustrated all at the same time. Excited because of everything I learn by doing it myself and the opportunities that exist. Frustrated because a promotion and publicity campaign is a full time job, and I don't even enjoy doing it much. So I will write my music, record it best I can and put it up for the world to see. If they only knew where to look ...

That answer don`t discourages me.I learn that early in my Career .The Music business have changed a lot .It is more risky now a days .So people will not be running to invest in you and your Music ,untill you are sucessfull.

It depends on the day. Sometimes I wake up and when I realize there isn't anyone listening, or anyone following my songs, or anyone purchasing cd's, or anyone helping me get a review, or anyone helping me book a gig, it can get discouraging to the point where you want to give up. But then you realize that if you do give up, all hope is lost. And that is folksinger suicide. So you keep on keepin' on. Sending more songs to Taxi. Getting more demos done. Writing new stuff. That is the only way things will happen. And then I realize that I am my own boss with my music and I realize I am lucky. So, in the end, I guess it depends on the day.

It's funny that I should read this now. I just posted a somewhat similar bit on this on my own blog (click my name to read it if want).

...But I digress.

It was a number of years ago when I started to awaken to the fact that the music industry was changing.

That the big record label in the sky wasn't going to swoop me up and make me a recording artist.

At first this discouraged me horribly. It depressed me.

How was I going to become the big famous recording artist that I always dreamed of being?

Then I realized "Why without them of course".

What you don't know can surely hurt you. It is our weak spot, our guarded hiding fear that causes us to underestimate our true self worth. The moment we rely upon another for our successes we become highly vunerable to continued falure through the misinterpretation of the facts and false facts before us. Success is a state of mind not a bank balance. True art is a personal achievement with a purpose of enobelment. Anything less is a short lived contrivence manipulated for the unsuspecting masses. Musicians do not need managers, they need us!

For life on Earth without any music would be a sad place indeed.

Mykl Lozin a.mus.a vca & ayo alumni

Australian United Recording Artists

AURArecords

Discovering Lost Dreams

A friend of mine told me today that a top act in another country only sold 1400 CDs last year , with a top producer , and top management.

I feel it's unfair of the music business to blame it on illegal downloads.

If they put some interest into making more innovative music that

people would buy I feel they could be more successful.

There seems to be a formula that they don't like to deviate from

very much with new artists, song writing, etc.

In Will Ackerman style , we should produce ourselves .

I've decided to release all my previously recorded music before I make new music for a few months.

Of course I'm still creating new

works for later recording.

What exists now that didn't exist

in the 1980s when I first recorded

some of my music is a "chance."

Opportunity today to be heard on line and sell your music on Cd Baby

and on line vendors had not been invented.

Thanks for chance Derek, and that's more than I ever had before.

Finding a partner to help you with your career is not an unworthy goal. People who think they succeed all on their own with no help from anyone ever are fooling themselves. Some people have one fat cat daddy (Brian Epstein for the Beatles) and some have many, dozens, hundreds or thousands who like the ants removing one grain of sand at a time build a huge nest. If the CEO of GM had to be on the factory floor from 7am to 4pm making the vehicles, he wouldn't have much time or energy doing the things the CEO needs to do. So the premise that the singer/songwriter/roadie/booker/creater can do everthing all the time and become "successful" what ever that means, is pretty slim. Somewhere along the way, help will come in some form, even if it is the realization that you're playing for the love of it and all the rest is irrelevant.

to be honest? yes it is very discouraging.However I just have to keep refering to a scripture in proverbs:whatever a man thinketh,so is he.And I KNOW I'm a great musician/artist.so that motivates me.

You have to make it happen for yourself. The only place you will find success before work is in the dictionary. No one will believe in your dream more that you. There are two kinds of people those who wait for something to happen or those that make something happen. I believe in DIY. When you have worked hard to achieve a great level of success you will not just turn it over to anyone because you know what it took to reach that level. I stay in touch with my fans. I talk to them after each concert. I am doing a magazine and I include all of my fans responses in the magazine they wrote about my music. The fans love this. I am doing a concert this weekend with my group singing to about 800 people and they purchase tickets for this concert. Derek thank you so much

But that said, Derek's response is appropriate in so many ways. However, the manager that waited for LeAnn Rimes to be pulling in $5k a gig missed an opportunity. Manager's that can see the potential in an artist early on is the one that will have the greatest impact and most meaning to an artist. So, keep the fire, nurture your craft, believe in yourself and don't get bogged down in hypotheticals and issues you can't control. Write good songs, play and sing them well, be your best and plug determinedly along. Success in music as in life, to paraphrase Steve Fromholtz is "mostly attitude and timing." And remember, what goes around comes back around. Does the "cynical response" "light a fire" or "get me down?" Neither. It's irrelevant. But it's fun to comment on. Back to work.

When I excepted the fact that no one was going to help me is when I started to see progress. I stop wasting time trying to get help or trying to convince investors to believe in me. This decision made me focus more on what I am capable of doing and what I know should be done.

Encouraged or discouraged depends on the day, sometimes I feel like a nuclear reactor, other days I feel like an observer. 30+ years at this have taught me that ultimately all the responsibility is mine. But that responsibility includes creating something that other people find attractive and wish to be a part of...It might do us all good to remember; DIY does not necessarily mean Do it BY yourself.

Derek, as a hip hop artist that's an understatement.

I had to rely on myself so much I don't even think about it anymore it's just automatic. I use to be scared to hearing the word "NO" but now I understand how much I've learn from hearing NO!

Hearing NO taught me how to record and master music. Hearing NO is how I was able to start my own indie label. Hearing NO got my music placed in a couple

independent films. So hearing NO has actually been a blessing.

No matter what business you're in this will always hold true. People rather join in instead of start something up.

I am very sad because there is a total lack of beautiful music being produced.

Music was my special friend and, now I just find myself trying to rescue songs that are dooomed into forgoteness.

The only purpose of music was to uplift one's spirits, and saddly good music has become a thing of the past.

Right now all that matters is that bottom line $$, and the music is just a path to reach that bottom line, that only spells greed.

Computers are only adding to the problem, because we are money dependat, and if there is no monetary compensation to our inspiration,there is no incentive to seek inspiration.

Bottom Line:

We are victims of our own inventions

So... what's new!?

That's the way it has always been.

It's an encouragement.

If I was making $5,000 a month I wouldnt want an agent.

But, that's just me. I don't want all the money... just enough to live on comfortably. How do you define success?

I don't think it's 100% accurate to say "Nobody is going to help you." If I took those words at face value I would feel discouraged and alone.

We don't create or manifest anything in a vacuum. We are supported and assisted in a myriad of ways by friends, family, strangers - the quick shuttle bus driver who finds us a gig, the local harp maker who lends us a gorgeous instrument we cannot afford to buy ... We can all add to this list and I believe the more we reciprocate the support we receive, the more it flows towards us.

Perhaps it is more accurate to say nobody is going to orchestrate my success for me. Because this is my life and this is my dream I wouldn't want it any other way..

Oona McOuat

I solely believe that for every vision there's prevision, I believe that my mindset determines what i shall have! i have done two previous cd's without people coming to invest, or having an agent put me on tour with anyone, It's all been a Faith walk for me, and it has worked and continues to do so. I love when my back is pressed up against the wall and all i have is my God givin talents and Boat-load of Faith! Something powerful always happens, I'll go some where for free and pickup five new jobs just for helping someone else out! Bottom line is I'm more successful now than the industry could ever make me! I do what i Love to do for a living, I answer to no one, but God and Myself and i sing when i want to and i sit down and rest with my family when i want to. There's always Prevision for the Vision, and it's not always money!! Sometimes it's a help that comes unexpected from angels on earth like Derek Sivers who always comes right on time with a encouraging word or networking just when i need it the MOST!!!

It is all on you and try to find people like you to be band mates and delegate tasks to them. It helps the band grow closer and keeps communications clean and clear. Remember, what you sow you will eventually reap and sometimes it takes a while but it's all part of the game and you GOT to LOVE the GAME! Now go on and Rock your LIFE and Sing out your joy!

I've been on my own for 18 + years and things have really started going well in the past 5 finance wise. I NEVER wait for that big producer because he doesn't exist and if he did there would bwe alot of red tape involved to mak it worth it for him...The 2nd thing thing is that it's MUCH more valuable and sweet when you acheive

victories on your own terms...Maybe that's just me ?

Mike

http://www.myspace.com/mikegoudreauband

It's encouraging. With all the technology out there on the internet, it has never...NEVER been easier to market yourself and find your NICHE. Years ago bands had to tour for years to build up a fan base...playing for 3 people and then 10, and then 100 and then 7 years later, if they got better and kept at it, 1000 people and so on. Now, all you have to do is learn how to find your niche and utilize all the amazing technology that is out there and you can build a fan base by sitting at your computer. People can know your songs before they have ever bought your record or seen you live, sign up for your newsletter and blog, your fan club all with the click of a button. It's powerful to take your career into your own hands. And anybody who doesn't is just being lazy.

I am very enlightened by what ALL have posted here... We all want the help, we all NEED the help... but at the end of the day, we can only be accountable for ourselves...

Sad...maybe. True? More than likely...yes. And what do you do when life hands you a bunch of lemons?........(whisper...Make lemonade!)

anne feeney: you're so on the money - if you know what's involved in everything you are better equipped to delegate and know who's likely to do the best job - and you appreciate all the time and effort put in by others more, too.

I think people do help each other out a lot, so it's not really a question of 'no-one is going to help you' - it's just 'no-one is going to do it for you'

people are very generous in lots of small ways - and it's important to appreciate them, even if it's as simple as someone giving you a ride to a gig when your car breaks down! personally, I don't want somebody to ask me sign on the bottom line & leave it all to them... I'd much rather find people who want to work WITH me.

You hit the spot again. And this is not only true for musicians, but everybody and every enterprise.

Merry Christmas Derek;

Peter

Dang I'm reply #463?

I think most artists want the "dream" - that the music business is not a busy but a place where million dollar record deals and publishing deals are given out to artists solely based on their talent - not hard work.

I'm sure most artists would find that reply discouraging but being a savvy businesswoman, I find it encouraging.

Anyone smart knows they create their own destiny.

If only life was so simple that you always get what you want.

There will always be for some that every thing just happens, in the right place at the right time, and most umportant of all knowing the right people.

So yes it is always down to you,and wouldn't it be nice if all was because of actual talent and abilty.

Derek you hit the nail on the head. Nobody is going to help you. And why should they? It is up to you as a musician to make your own way. You have to carve your own nitch in this business. My band, Darron Moore and The 14th Floor had to do that. I make a living booking my own shows, producing my own albums, and paying my own band. I am totally self employed and make my living performing from the gigs I book. It's tough. It's hard. It's diffulcut. But it's FUN!!! I have to come up with inovative ways to get noticed and of course, my show has to be top notch.

We have a dynamic stage show and have managed to book an average of 130-150 gigs a year. And we sell our CDs, T-Shirts, and other merchandise at our shows. We perform any place Las Vegas Style R&B is appreciated...and sometimes NOT! But I make it happen. I have to. My band has to. We continue to stay on top...On the 14th Floor!

Peace.

Come up to the 14th Floor.

Darron Moore and The 14th Floor

Detroit's Hottest Las Vegas R&B Band.

Also performing the Luther Vandross Tribute Show.

The flip side of expecting no one to help you is knowing you won't be blaming anyone for anything that goes wrong. Because one of the worse feelings is thinking someone did you wrong, or someone owes you something. No? It's a beautiful existence, not feeling deprived by someone else.

The best part of not expecting any help is being able to achieve something anyway. Doesn't happen every time, but when it does, it's nice.

Nah, not discouraged. Thanks for today's shot of reality.

True, no Santa is coming with dollars in a wheelbarrow willing to spend it on you, unless they have a certainty it will produce at least two other wheelbarrows in return. In the music business as well as in life in general, waiting for someone to solve all your problems magically is the highway to failure.

But it's not true no one can help you, and to a certain extent, you contradict yourself Derek, as you repeatedly said musicians should not hesitate to bank on the good will, the enthusiasm and the efficiency of their fans, street teams, and other people willing to help you, just because they think you're a good musician and you deserve better.

OK, if your target is to make it BIG, I mean BIG, it's probably not enough. But each journey starts with a first step, doesn't it?

Alec Guinness said "Failure has a thousand explanations. Success doesn't need one."

The answer could be encouraging, but we're getting used to want everything now.

Anyway it's true that it's nice to believe that it's all up to you, but you have to believe extremely strongly in yourself and not everyone can (and personally I really don't know if I can...).

I always admired the (I call) "American determination": you can if you really want (and Derek, you're a man who made it out!), but in Southern Europe maybe we're not so strong, or just we are culturally different, so we tend to say "I know I can, but SOMEONE doesn't want it..." and we complaint...

I'm trying to follow your suggestions, but it's often hard and there are many very frustrating days...

One more thing: when you ask a suggestion you have to be ready to receive something you don't want... but those are the rules of the game: world is not perfect and it's not what we want it to be!

It's always good to get a helping hand in life but there's about facing trials alone that inspire me and bring the best out of me.

So nobody's gonna help me? Great! That just makes me more excited about the journey as well as the destination!

Respect Your Legacy!

i think i know both sides of the story.

i've been trough phases, in which being alone encouraged me, and i also know how it feels when that puts me down.

but i think i'm closer to myself when being on my own gives me power, instead of taking it from myself...

cheers,

schmittke

Great post Derek.

Wow! $500 000 worth of debt stress on your back before you see profit or a large part of your entire business, gone for life.

Seems like a good way to ruin your career before you even start!

You will be helped when you first help yourself.

Big Daddy ain't gonna hold your hand and mama ain't gonna come fix it all... ;-)

The Internet has radically changed the entire game. You can use it to create your own success.

Anyway, if someone helped you they would only do it if they could help themselves, to a bit of your dough.

When you reach a level of success you can then either negotiate better deals or avoid deals altogether.

Artists should start small and build value in their markets for the long run.

Forget the old "Industry" way of doing things and build your own music business structures.

Think of building income from the start, however small it may be at first, build automated income, then expand as your income grows.

Don't be a hare, think tortoise.

if that would discourage me, i must have finished playing in a band for a long time. especially in switzerland there is nobody helping musicians but if you really like to make music and have a lot of fun with it there is no reason not to do so.

I find that very encouraging. Thanks Derek!

Cheers:)))

Mark

Great post, Derek! I'm amazed at the quality of the responses to it; obviously you've tapped into a major need--a place where the independent musician can ask questions and at least hope to get useful replies. What I'm seeing from the responses is that everyone is having to fumble their way along.

One part of the original question referred to "payola." I'd like to see more information about advertising; what works to actually get air time for your music. "Payola" is illegal, but as I've been trying to learn the protocols for getting airtime on our local medias, I can certainly understand the forces that stimulate someone to try this. We can pay for "regular" ad spots (or "underwriting" on public radio), but with music, the best "ad" is the actual product, yet we're not allowed to pay for the time to play our song. Go figure. When I've asked the question directly to a radio announcer, I've gotten a big fat shrug.

I know how to put together a media kit, but as ours is a holiday cd and the few reviews we've had didn't come out until just right before this holiday season, I've been going nuts trying to figure out how to get at least some local air time in enough time to generate some sales.

My songs do not sell as well as I wanted but sell and grow from year to year.



My pages on the net does not still have so many visits in the net as I wanted but still have visits

and grow from year to year.



Imagine if I had agents and investors but pay to sell what is mine. My Work.

Where I spent mountains of time and money.

So: No agent. No investor. No one’s going to help me until im already successful.

So: When I achieve success excuse me agents and investors but, after do not contact me.



My success is not based in agents and investors but in my work.

So Musicians remain sober,do not give your work for nothing,

make the agents and investors work if they want to make money.

A great 2009 for all Musicians a for you too Derek Sivers

I realised this a few years ago. It was one of the most empowering points of my life.

The cold hard fact is that nothing gets sold without marketing and promotion. If you have the time and the money and you're under 30 years of age YOU CAN DO IT!

Any questions?

I don't even know where ot find an agent. I have a CD but no band, no original songs and no agent.

I truly need help!

Hi, realiized the answer to "whether encouraging" or not was not mentioned in my previous comment.

Yes it was, because starting or not with oneself is the causer to subsequent or consequent results. The responsibility is yours first and last.

Are you kidding me? On top of not helping me, the powers that be have been keeping me off of local radio for years; I've done nothing but filter money UP to performing rights societies; ASCAP and BMI are hitting up clubs in my area to pay them for live music which puts live music at their clubs in jeopardy; I think it's healthy and realistic to assume no one is going to help you, and on top of that, why would you want to even get involved in a music business that gives us what passes for music these days? Cynical, you bet. Do it yourself.

It's both! I agree that we wait around too much hoping that something big and magical comes along for us. I also like to take my own road on things and know that it's all up to me because there's very few people you can depend on....but at the same time after years of clawing your way through it sure would be nice for an extra push from someone with big money or connections!

With the advent of online social networking & the like, I think it is very much up to the individual to "get themselves out there". I think having a proactive approach is much healthier than sitting back & waiting for that big deal or whatever else..... Besides which, if you're motivated, I think it's possible to achieve a lot more yourself than handing over your power to a label (particularly smaller labels) to promote you & your music... Have a good Xmas all & onwards & upwards for 2009!

Michael.

PS Derek, you rock :)

The prospect of no help can be a damper or a catalyst. We are all both our own worst enemy and greatest ally. Admittedly fear, insecurity and depression can at times become these seemingly insurmountable obstacles, when it seems as though you will never have what you want. However at some point we have to shake ourselves gently by the shoulders and put into action the old adage "when the going gets tough, the tough get going."

No, we are not all self-starters by nature; some of us only act when we're backed into a corner. But even then, you can have a game plan ready if you're willing to dream a little. Hope, enthusiasm and passion can be such powerful motivators -- they are actually magnets toward success!

It's true that reaching beyond your current grasp and circumstances will not guarantee you shining results or huge returns. Conversely, failing to act or visualize anything more than what you are and have now absolutely does condemn you to stagnation and ultimately failure.

Whenever you find yourself feeling boxed in without a way out, cut yourself a mental skylight, gaze upward and outward, and let the creative juices start flowing...

Success to me as a musician is to write and record the music that moves me. I'm happy with that. I'll never sell a zillion cds... but, that's not what it's about for me. I just like to be an artist.

e

It comes at just the right time - OK! I'll take the challenge!

If you like what you do that's 1/2 the battle. If you can create something from nothing and you are proud of that, you don't need help. Yes support is great but never push always pull.

To be completely on your own sounds good. Just imagine, no more discussions with A&Rs, Marketing Managers, Lawyers, Controlers... It's definitely worth trying. Merry Christmas to you all.

Aside from being a musician I'm a graphic designer. We always learned in school about how because of the economy and because of the talent in the world it is incredibly hard to get ahead and stand out. All this means is that you have to work as hard as you can to be great. The same applies to music.

Though no one may help, that can be a great thing. For decades in music the only way to get ahead was to know someone, or to fit what was marketable at the time. Today it is much more possible for a person to do exactly what they want without having to conform to standards of what is already out. For example, there are a lot more artists around now than ever that are hard to put into a genre. The boundaries are not nearly as strong as they used to be. It's a great time for music when someone who just writes songs in their bedroom can become just as appreciated as someone who plays stadiums.

Derek Great Read! Makes you think. For me personally, it is very encouraging to create my own fame, but it is also very scary. I mean very scary, knowing that your success comes from you. It's tough but i guess you have to just keep trying to get yourself out there until people start knowing who you are...

Absolutely, it would encourage me to send out another email, comment on someones myspace page or even play that little to no money gig just for the exposure. Most importantly, music is fun! If it isn't workin' for ya, pick up a banjo or buy an album. If that is no solution, your best bet is to go to the beach.

I have to add something to my previous posting:

Yes, it can be hard to make a living as an artist. But the real trap is to feel inferior when success is not really happening.

Today I came across a writing of Wayne Dyer in his Book "Change you thoughts, change your life" about Lao Tzu.

I will quote a little passage:


"Let go of evaluating yourself on the basis of how much you've accumulated and what is in your financial portfolio. Stop putting a dollar value on all that you can have and do. Let go of your need to get a "good deal" and choose instead to be of sharing. You'll be happily surprised by how nice it feels to simply change your belief that you're only successful if you're making money.

The less you focus on making a profit - instead shifting your energy to living your purpose in harmony with everyone else-the more money will flow to you and the more opportunities for generosity will be available to you.

The world of institutional pressures is built on an endless list of human do's and don'ts. Lao Tzu advocates that you discover your heart's true desire, all while remembering that no one else can tell you what it is.

Post the followingaffirmation for your constant attention:

I am moral, profitable, and a genius extraordinaire, regardless of what any institutional transcript or bank statement says.

Repeat this mantra until it becomes your way of being."

-----

I hope this is encouraging and helpful;

Peter

If no one will help ME, then they probably won't help anybody else... so that's great. The field is level, well, except for everyone out there that has $$ already. Mom & Dad will often invest in Kids...

I've been gigging over 30 years locally. People help you if there's money in it. Since there's no money in my music, I'm content to be a medium fish in small pond and be grateful I get to play at all. Success is how you define it. Also, making money for others means less musical freedom.

yup Derek you are so right,

I could get jealous of the poeple in my own field and other musuical fields who ahve made a sucess for themselves and i could mumble that "I am a better musician than him/her." That way only leads to misery and unfulfilled potential and dreams.

I like living on my wits and over the past few years I have become bold as brass and will promote myself at any opportunity.

I make sure that when I talk top promoters they understand me and they can pick up my passion. That I sound like I know what I am on about and I know my music has value.

I think if you get to that stage and you actually are good poeople will take notice of you eventually.

Here's to initiative

Lorcán

It does not bother me. I would rather do more myself and get an 1/8 from someone else if possible. I've always had to work hard for what I wanted. With help I successfully paid for my first cd. I had help in that the cost to get the cd done was less because people wanted to work with me. My part of the bargin came first then if they wanted to give that was wonderfull!!!! Years earlier in my life I tried out for the marching band I worked the whole summer on turns, spins, and throws. None of my friends saw me from June - September of that year. I am proud to say that my attitude made me understand so much in this business of life. I just love the feeling after the goal has been meet.

I know Derek hit the bulls eye with his statement. Anyone communicating reality to the music industry/artist/bands should find it very encouraging. The first reality is there are thousands of artist/bands in the world that are very good at what they do, but, as good as they are, do they really know/have what it takes to become a SUCCESSFUL? I am constantly amazed at how many artist cannot tell me how many fans they have & more importantly how many "true blue fans" they have. (NOTE: Having 5,000 friends on My Space does not mean you have 5,000 TBF) TBF being those that will attend their shows regularly & spend their hard earned money on an artist's merchandise & spread the word amongst their family/friends about you & your music. TBF are those that connect with your music in which you create moments for them to remember forever.

Before we take on a new client, we make sure they know we expect them & the band to all make a consistent 100 + % contribution to their own success. If any member of the group will not do this, then they need to be replaced regardless of how great a musician they are, for, being independent means this is a team effort & the rewards are shared by the team. TBF will spend on average $100 / year on your merchandise, etc. To reach the $500,000 in gross revenues means you need at least 5,000 TBF. The more TBF you have the more bookings you will get....most club owners would like for a artist to show up with at min. of 75-100 fans. Imagine how many venues/booking agents would be calling you if you show up with 200-500 fans at each gig? You want to entertain your fans; make new fans, create moments for them; sell lots of drinks for the club. Bottom line everyone is in the business to "MAKE MONEY".

That information encourages me because you're not telling me "what I want to hear", you're telling me the truth as you see it.

For a start, that's refreshing. It's too easy to tell people what they want to hear and walk off leaving them deluded and waiting for that special break.

I think it is encouraging from a reality perspective and discouraging to a degree when you realize you not only need to become a skilled songwriter and performer but you have to devote probably more time toward becoming your own manager/booking agent/publicist in the early stages

For me, I never expected help and when it has materialized I'm always grateful in a deer-in-the-headlights kind of way.

The tough part (for me) is balancing the "art" with the "business". You need a lot of both if you want to be taken seriously. It's tough because they are both full time jobs and the trick is not to get so sucked into the business that you forget to innovate in your art. The art is the one thing only you can do.

So, to answer the question it neither encourages or discourages me - it's just the way things go.

That encourages me to strive to do better and to take more time in preparation of my goals. We all have choices in life and I wouldn’t put my passion for music or my personal destiny in any ones hands but my own. If you work hard networking and promoting then things will fall into place, but to put your fate in someone else to make you to successful then you’re in the wrong business.

“Excellence means asking more of yourself than others”

http://www.myspace.com/jbirdproductionz

“Nobody's going to help you. Does that encourage you or discourage you?”

To be honest, I'm very encouraged yet have been discouraged. It seems to me most musicians I've worked with in this business were living in a dream world and thought a record contract would appear in front of them without them working to obtain it.

I've been writing songs (lyrics) and creating my own music for over 30 years. I've had 16 bands within that time line, most lasted only a few months, but a few lasted several years, STILL we didn't get where we wanted to be. So I went solo and still didn't get the satisfaction I was seeking.That DIDN'T stop me.

Nowadays, I've temporarily switched gears and I'm trying to manage a very talented female singer/songwriter who is also unsigned.

Being discouraged time and time again has made me work harder to find the solution in making my dreams come true by helping others have their own dreams come true.

Even though one band I founded in the mid 1990s were lucky enough to tour with (as the opening band) for major known bands and solo artists time and time again, that band being unsigned hurt us when the excitement ended, but at the same time gave ME the willpower to forge onward as an unsigned solo artist.

If you don't believe in yourself or in your music, and aren't willing to work hard, then this is NOT the business for you.

Hi Derek--I love these articles. To me, when I hear that, it discourages me. But that's why I read your articles--because you think in a way that is different from me and I need to change my mindset. I need to internalize this kind of viewpoint. Loved the villain article too. It cracked me up because I'm always worried that people don't "like" me. But just accepting that is very liberating.

I've seen both sides of the business, unfortunately I was spoiled from the beginning.. I was signed to a major recording deal in- get this- 1979. I was just a kid song writer who got lucky through my associations with a top notch producer and a great demo! We had one top 20 hit out of a 3 album deal, and that was it! It was a great ride although a short one, Then I spent the next ten years chasing record deals like some kind of addict. With no success! Talk about a big let down! But I was waiting for some one to give me another deal.. Didn't happen, and all I could do was feel sorry for my self until a couple of friends kept bugging me to just do it my self.. I've learned a lot since then and am constantly learning more. It's a lot of work, but it's MY JOB and I love what I do. There is no short cut! There are very few majors going to hand out $$ to even fewer bands, so forget about it and start making music! Once you're successful of course everybody wants you, but at least then you'll know what you're capable of on your own, and you won't easily settle for any old crappy record deal!

Another prod from Derek to make us all stop and take stock of what we're doing, how we're doing it and why. The statement "Nobody’s going to help you. It’s all up to you." doesn't discourage me. But then again, I don't believe it. Go back over all of Dereks advice (it's all still here) and then just change the statement to, "Nobody's going to do it for you. It's all up to you"

Great advice Derek. I am over my self-pity of "nobody helping me, and have taken measures to create my own path. With so many resources available on the internet, doing it all is possible. I've also noticed that the more people you have working for you, more time is spend managing those people OR fixing what they should have done. So, believe in yourself and go for it! You will respect yourself and your work in the long-run.

www.mantramom.com

I'm encouraged and inspired by the fact that no one is going to help me, sometimes, however, I feel that I need a bulldozer to push those folks out of the way so I can get the job done! ; )

Here's my coolest find....in not caring what people think or "needing" help. I have found more help, amazing experiences, prosperity and ideas to achieve more. So these words don't really discourage or encourage me. I think it's important to be open to help but not think you need it. There isn't really anything you can't achieve. When things start lining up, the help is essential to maintaining and becomes the next logical step.

I think it's only PRAGMATIC to assume that "no one will help" because people only want to help self-starters - people who seem to be on a winning path. Why should anyone believe in you more - and invest more in your career - than you are willing to do?

Also, why sit around and wait for some magic genie to come along and transform your career? Why put your fate in the hands of others - when you could be putting your time, energy and TALENT into your career and gaining some control over your own destiny?

Not only will no-one help you; people will discourage you by making you sell tickets to play their venues even though you are providing the people to earn them business. Some people will dislike your music and tell you about it (probably hurt your feelings). Band-members will quit the band as soon as you are ready to take band pictures, get into the recording studio, or order your first printing of cd's. You will play at venues in front of 3 people that may or may not appreciate the music you have to offer. Your boss will tell you "No, you can't have Friday off to drive to San Francisco to play with your band."

The obstacles in the business of music are some of the toughest in the world. However, if you love writing, playing, and/or performing and you don't mind dealing with a lot of rejection and failure...you can do it! Wiki some of your favorite artists. Most of them took YEARS to break into mainstream radio and venue gigs where they actually got to play for a living (much less a comfortable living). If you can't handle working a full time job, writing, promoting, performing, and sleeping very little so you can get it all done...you may want to get a college degree (or another one) because that will be an easier path to success than the path of a professional musician.

Yeah man,

Interesting subject.

When I decided to make my first record,

I not only thought people would listen,

but I really thought ''someone'' would pay me for my ''talents'' . . . ha, ha, what a fantasy that was!

I payed my ''friend'' who played with a famous band $10,000 total to get ''in''!

I had a publicist write a review,

and he supposedly had an in at Groove addicts.

After 2 albums and 20 t.v. commercial cues, I realize how on my own I really am.

Making music actually drove most of my friends away, my girlfriend left me,

no one wanted to listen, and I ended up all alone and miserable!

Bon Scott said it best: ''It's a long way to the top if you wanna rock n' roll''

L A M M Y

Correct 99% of bands will never get the help they need. Honestly its what I use to motivate my band.

I had many fantasies about being "discovered" when I first started playing music. I think many people are looking for validation and attention. But it's been SO VALUABLE to realize I need to work hard and be in reality to accomplish things.

The truth is the music business is sleazy and corrupt and it always has been. Make music because that's what you love to do, and let go of the results. If you're looking for anything else find a therapist:)

I saw Patti Smith speak - this lady asked her "how do I find funding for my new record?" and Patti Smith said "go find a job". She worked many odd jobs at the beginning of her career. There's no way around growing up and taking responsibility folks.

Right on Derek!

BE OPEN TO THE YES!!!

Someone wrote this to me in an email... after meeting me randomly and I shared a vision a dream I had for a music project for kids

"You are so right... just be open to the yes. put your vision out there, make yourself available to be useful, and let the universe take care of the details."

maybe sometimes there is help.

;)

As an artist who happens to have an MBA, I can tell you with a certanty the DIY is the way to go in these times. The best way not to fall in the industry's trap is to know first-hand what works for you and what doesn't. It can be done. You just have to determine what "success" means to you. The truth of the matter is you need all of the elements of a business in order to be "successful" i.e. accounting, legal, marketing, sales, distribution, etc. If you can provide for these things yourself, more power to you. As an artist, you must have these elements in place to reach your full potential. Nothing wrong with not having lofty goals, but if your intentions are to make it past selling to your family and friends, you need to have a plan and a team that can help you execute. Read, educate yourself, study and network with others. The biggest mistake I ever made in business was not aquiring the help that I needed to (1) establish (2) maintain and (3) take it to the next level. I will not make that mistake again. It takes an investment; yours first, then others. I believe we are living in exciting times for artists because the industry has changed, much to our benefit. Take hold and don't be discouraged in making the right investments that will serve your artistry well. Good luck to you all.

That's alright with me. I prefer to do things myself anyhow. Then when what I'm doing with my music is successful, I can reap the rewards. I'll also have the joy of knowing I succeeded. Makes you feel real good about yourself when you do. However, if the good Lord wants me to have something He will supply it.

Any success I've had, I chased it down, pursued it and saw it through to completion. I already knew no one was going to help me until I came up on my own.

I'm thankful for those experiences that test my resolve because the benefits I have gotten from them are on going even though those obstacles of that moment have pasted.

If you don’t believe in you, you can’t possible persuade anyone else too.

To hear that no one will help me but me is VERY encouraging! To be reminded that I am responsible for my own successes and failures is very empowering. To give that personal power away to anyone else is to diminish myself.

Granted, we all benefit from 'help' or 'assistance', financial, emotional, or otherwise. Tho to expect it to come from anywhere but within is to take away from our greatest assets; ourselves. : )

I believe that it's best to not get too much help / funding in the beginning.

The individual or group needs the space and time to commit to a specific, simple direction, and on a shoestring budget.

If one gets moving on the right path, then generous people, timely circumstances and opportunities begin to present themselves.

If none of this happens, or it is not possible to see the opening doors, then to me that would mean that you have not properly understood your direction, and you need to go back to the drawing board and listen, experiment, adjust, and maintain an open mind.

Once I am keyed into my purpose-at-that-time and making moves, I find that I do very little alone.

Obviously the answer lies somewhere in between the extremes of original question and Derek's response.

It would be silly to expect someone to suddenly invest $500,000 in you unless you were already successful. But it would also be silly to expect to do absolutely everything yourself and still be a success.

The answer is that you need to have a few committed people who are prepared to invest TIME and ENERGY in your musical vision.

I've been thinking about this lately because I have worked entirely on my own for a few years now and built up a faithful fan base online, but I have come to realise that it's going to be very difficult to make the next step up without some help.

I am a typical musician - slightly insecure and more focused on music than commerce - and my gut instinct is to just keep doing what I've been doing all by myself and not ask for help.

But I think history shows us that most artists who have been successful musically AND commercially have had a brilliant and committed manager behind them, and that was often someone who grew WITH the artist and developed their managerial skills concurrently.

And where do you find such a person? I've really no idea!

- DC

It’s not true that no one will help you. If your craft is any good you will make a lot of friends and get a lot of support. You’ll have to walk to your first gig just like everybody else, but you’ll find your legs and get a lift. When people come to a show, like what they see, and spread the word – that’s someone helping. When they turn you on to an insider at a festival – that’s someone helping. When they come to your defense, that’s someone helping.

I don’t need to go on. The point is that the Man With The Cigar won’t be there. But you don’t want him anyway. I’m old enough to remember the days when everybody wanted a record contract. In fact you practically died without one. Now, who needs it?

I was friends with a Bay Area band who signed a two year deal with a company who used them for a tax write off. The recording they made was shelved and never released. They were under contract so they couldn’t make a move for two years.

What I’m saying is – and my experience bears this out – there are a lot of people who will help you. This is very much a hands-on, in the trenches, networking kind of thing. If you don’t like people you better quit now, because they will save you life. But it’s reciprocal – you need to put them in your art and do it for real. Then we all rise.

Nobody helping motivates me. I know when it's all said and done I can only depend on me.Independant is the best way to be!Here is some key words I will leave for you"I make music that bangs and I roll with a crew".Paytc

Wow, do you actually read all of these replies?

I feel the way you described, Derek. Besides, if someone does it FOR me, when I achieve my goal it wouldn't be ME doing it, would it? Thanks for posing the question. Cheers!

Compose, perform to 'please youself', to quote Ricky Nelson's 'Garden Party' lyrics.

Early on I always expected someone to come out of the sky and make everything work. (delusional) Now I understand what you are saying is an absolute fact. Sometimes you just have to be patient and keep working many different angles. Music is mostly like the universe, 5 units of energy in for 2 units back up until the exponential machinery is working. Your answer would have depressed me in the old days, it really is energizing today knowing exactly what needs to be done and how to do it. Maybe it is an arrogant attitude but I am going to kick ass in this arrangement!! Be on the lookout for the Centrifugal Satz Clock!!

I would expect answers like that from people that are already successful, BUT IT WOULDN'T dicourage me. If anything, it makes me more eager to make it happen for myself. Once my mission and demands are met, then I could help others unlike others helped me! Open the doors for the new talant!

40 years ago no musician had the tools we have now.

Now - more than ever before - success in within the reach of anyone with the passion, drive and talent to get music heard, bought and sold.

It's amazing! If I want to, I can record a song today and have worldwide distribution tonight.

Create it and make it happen!

Great post, Derek.

I'm not even sure what SUCCESS in the music biz means anymore. Is it being on "cribs" playing tennis with Kanye West? Is it playing music for your lively hood, and not having a day job? I do know it has NOTHING to do with writing a good song, and putting on a good show. I look at the top 40 now, and I don't know whether to laugh or cry. If an investor comes along sure, walk through an open door, but sit back and wait for a philanthropist? a real musician couldn't do that anyway.

I partially agree with you, as this depends on several factors such social, financial, effort and luck. These circumstances are integrated, influence and interact one with another. For exmples, if he has the right contacts in the music business and meet the right people in that field, then the social and luck elements play a major part againts the unfortunate elemet of financial difficulty where as, if he works hard to achieve his goals then he will be able to achieve all of them I believe because, he will search and try to interact with the right people in the field, befriend the right guys and most importantly, he will need to be in the right place where he will find many of them. After he does this, they will be able to help him to promote his aim and gradually, convince of his potantial by touring and gigging every where. It's more advisable to do it as team work, as this will increase such possibilities. In short, you will never learn if you don't do it by yourself; and you will never appreciate success or enjoy it if someone else did it for you. I refer to Madonna as a perfect example for the issue.

I don't think it's ever occurred to me that anyone would help me. My main motivation is passion, and if I have passion and persistence both, I get things done. Passion is how I met you, Derek! I was simply thrilled to hear about CD Baby being in Portland, and felt passionately enough about it to put myself out there and write you and introduce myself. I didn't wait for a job posting. I tromped on over and tossed my enthusiasm in your lap. It also helps to consistently question and redefine success for yourself. If success, to me, means security, then I'm less likely to take risk. But if success is joy, then joy can be found in much more unlikely places.

The only thing you can rely on to be there for you in the music business is your audience. If you connect with one and nurture that relationship, it will be with you for life. As far as everything else, you're on your own.....

One more thing....I have to say from a business stand point CD Baby is one thing that has been there for me...the instant networking is something that no one in any time period could have happen so quickly. It is the distribution mechanism that careers of any generation could only dream of...and now that it is set up I can spend my time creating new music! All kinds of possibilities exist!!!

I have had alot of interest from major "people" but no "help"....yet.Alot of big talk.

The secret is how to get people to know you exist on the web. This is the secret I need to find out.This way I don't need them.

I see alot of articles about it but they never really give the answer. Alot of the time it's buy my book that tells you, but they really don't.Alot of sparkling

babble. Maybe there are articles that help.

Anyway if you ever decide to get to Hi. I still have the contacts. ha

Ted Snyder

To answer your question....

I have had the attitude that I need to do it myself for awhile. If someone comes along great.

Ted

This is a thought-provoking and helpful topic. For me, realizing and facing the fact that I have to do something myself can be both discouraging and energizing. Ideally, after the initial shock--which can be deflating--a little spark gets ignited, and it's up to me to protect and fan that. The tricky part for me is not usually getting that spark of motivation--it's figuring out how to apply it. It's one thing to say, "Yeah! I'm going to get to that level myself, so I don't need the [agent, investor, etc.]," but it's a very different thing to figure out how to do that. Often the reason we want those people to take an interest in us is because we don't know how to get to the desired level, not because we don't have the energy to do so. I think the key, then, is guidance on the path.

"You can or you can't, you shall or you shant. You will or you won't, so do it or don't. But one thing you know for sure, nobody gonna do it for you." (From "You Can or You Can't" from the Six Pack Willy cd.

I thought I was lucky when a popular agent/manager offered to help me, and when someone with money want to invest I'm me. But the truth is, there is always a price... The agent booked me a heap of gigs, but mostly on venues that didn't want my style of music (he honestly thought I was so good that it didn't matter-no-one is that good). The investor mostly loved my songs and performing, but wanted to change me into something I wasn't. Lesson learned... I am now focussed ok doing what I have to do to get where I want to go. Zoom, zoom!

Honestly, it shouldn't matter what people think or how popular you are. People should be happy to make the art they can make. The artist should be the artist, and not focus on being a pimp.

Yes Derek, you are absolutely correct about the fact that theres no one to help me at this point in life unless I earn $5000 a month. This is quite discouraging for me but I guess thats how the world operates....I will only make me work harder I guess!!!!

fuck all the psychobabble.

just do your thing. perfect it. nothing is to far out there to garner an audience.

you aren't be someone else.

m..

intodown

I don't expect help from the outside world. I feel guilty, though, as my day job and other responsibilities have been taking up all my time, and I've devoted very little lately to promoting our band. If we never reach an audience it will be my fault.

It is not the agent, manager or any other person not even mom. It has to be you... (me)

Not even that loyal band mate... it is and always will be "what is in it for me..."

That is why we call it "my music..."

My guess is... I then would have to say "this is the agent, managers or mom's music..."

If I want loyalty then I need a dog...

My love of music is not only the performance as wonderful and necessary as performance is. It still is the music that is why I do what I do.

Even when the music is not mine. Porter, Gershwin, Hefty and Stein and countless others, I strive to convey my own understanding... interpretation of what the writer was saying, feeling, meaning...

Which makes me a good musician, performer and a lossy business man...

Maybe that is why there are so many wonderful "side-men" out here... it's all in...

what do you want...

That's just a fact of life. No good businessman, (and by now everybody knows music IS a business) gives anything away for nothing. And that's if you are making $5000 a month or $50 a month!

It is never true that no one will help you...someone will always help you..true, no one will wave a magic wand and make the hard work go away..the key is to recognize help in the form it is given..love, support, encouragement are available to any open heart..and the teacher will appear when you need teaching...then the world becomes a playground of resources..live long enough and you'll see

Hi Derek,

I definitely disagree when you say 'nobody’s going to help you'. Am I not there for myself? ;-)

Ok, seriously, always being a self-starter and self-taught in everything, this would just be another chance for me to rise to the challenge. Life's all about challenges and the way one handles them and I find it more efficient and rewarding being in control of one's life and achievements.

However, some external help time to time don't hurt, do it? Ad what you do here is just an example of such useful help. Thanks.

I find it encouraging. It's Reality..and the older i get (58), the more i find comfort in reality. In 100 years, nobody will remember you or your music in all liklihood. If you are making music for any other reason than because you love doing it, you might want to consider spending your time elsewhere. "Success" is a very subjective term. What does it mean to you? When you die, will you look on your musical life as time well spent? Destinations are all well and good but in the end, it's enjoying the trip that counts.

I do not worry about the one's who do not want to help, I worry more about the one's that say they will help.

Who is it that they really want to help?

Seems like obvious advice but we don't often want to hear it. However, I must agree that it reminds us of an absolute reality: No one cares about your project(s) more than you do. Therefore, keep on keepin' on! Only you can make it happen.

I have been "doing it on my own" for about fifteen years, have always lost more money than I make, and have had to drastically scale back my musical activity since my daughter was born due to financial and time constraints. I recently booked myself a week-long tour in UK by contacting similar bands on myspace, asking them what clubs they play in their town and then contacting those clubs. People are very helpful on a grass roots level (well, musicians are; club promoters mostly don't get back to you unless you are a booking agent). A week-long tour took me a couple months to organize and promote (online & local press) and I still lost money. That is a couple months I could have spent recording! I suppose I could write songs with less chords, or less heart — might save me some time so I can get on with banging my head against the industry...

I have also spent a year or so setting up pages on facebook, ourstage, mtv, cbc, etc etc and my CDs are certainly NOT flying out of the CD Baby warehouse! (Or off the merch table...) Perseverance does not necessarily bear fruit.

To be honest, I'd prefer to just stay at home and make records, but unfortunately you don't get better unless you perform. Practice does not make perfect; there is a "trial-by-fire" element to performance and recorded music often forgets to include the fire.

So I think you have to choose: do you want to make more money, or make great music? Seriously, you need a budget to do anything — so get a day job that doesn't interfere with your performance / production schedule. Trying to be your own "team" takes more time than a day job and doesn't bring in any money or get you better gigs — that is time you could be using to make music.

JBall

Well, this is definitely true and good to learn. But on the other hand, I have several friends who have "made it," that is, are making a living playing; and in a couple of cases are actually famous (you would know their names). In every single case, that person, whether male or female, had a spouse, significant other, or other "backer" who "managed" them (i.e., did a tremendous amount to advance that person's career which he/she was incapable of doing him- or herself); OR (and often also) paid a significant amount toward that person's personal and/or career expenses. In a couple of cases the person is now so successful that they are "making a living" -- but would never have gotten there if this other person had not done what they did, for a long time until that person broke through. And most of those significant others are still doing it, working a tiring "day job" so their spouse can go "on the road" and live their dream -- often cheating on them in the bargain. True, nobody is going to drive up in a limousine and hand you a piece of paper, your ticket to fame and fortune; or even (good advice, D.S.) a booking agency contract so you can even BUILD a following. But on the other hand I know literally hundreds of musicians at all levels of being known, and the ones who are "making a living" playing music, without exception, got there because someone who loved them, went above and beyond to help them get there. Sure, you also have to have talent but many people who are even more talented haven't made it because they didn't have enough (or any) support, mainly financial. I'm just sayin'.

Lots of great ideas here; though "Do-it-yourself-so-it-gets-done-right" is a perfectionist mantra I am trying to dissolve!

Sure, no one is going to care about my music--and every tiny detail about the creative and business aspects of managing it--as much as I am. But I run myself weary trying to do it all myself.

Like many people have said in these posts, it can be a good creative and refueling move to balance self reliance with asking for help.

Even if the help isn't as "perfect" as you'd work for yourself, a modest financial hand, a motivated but likewise overextended agent, a fan who goes crazy with postering for you, or your family who helps fill CD orders... sometimes it's wise to ask for small things, since they can provide a real boost!

As a musical director, I've never had an agent. I just had to work hard and get to know people in my industry. Just to get my foot in the door, I was very inexpensive! But, back in the 50's, I must admit that my well-rounded talent got me jobs playing piano, on to arranging and conducting, orchestrating and composing. I have to thank my Mother for making me take piano and read music in choirs, until I was old enough to realize what it took to compete in the musical world of Hollywood. Derek, you are right on in your evaluation of the difficulty in breaking in to the professional music world. Good luck to all!

Johnny Mann

Music is like having children, if you make too many calculations, you never write songs and share them. I found out that friends that are real friends will help if they're impressed by your commitment. Not only $$ helps!

Hi Derek,

I know this is absolutely your point , and the concept of CDbaby - an artist should be two-on-one, so to say - a musician and his own agent. Right, there is nobody out to help - these times are definitely over. Whether it does encourage or discourage me personally? I would say both of it.

First, as an indie artist I know that everything in my life depends on my efforts only, so each and every newly won fan, each new positive review etc. counts, and this is a great feeling. On the other hand, I know how extremely much time this self-promotion takes, and as a musician I could make far better use of this time ( composing, exercising...you know ). I would be happy if I had someone who could help me with those promo issues!

I think ( well , you are right here again ) that one has to really love the music biz and have fun making the self-promotion - to the same degree as one has fun making music. Then it works.

Best Xmas wishes to you,

Andrew

The thought that "I am totally responsible for my success" and "no one can help me now" really motivated me to get through difficult college courses. It kept me focused and boosted my morale while also inspiring me to stay up long hours burning the midnight oil. When you finally do achieve or succeed it feels so much better because you know you did it all by yourself.

I have never made a dime selling a song I wrote. I have never won a songwriting contest. I will never stop writing songs.

Hi Derek,

How funny and ironic this is for me. I have been writing, playing

and recording music for years. Recently I had one small success with a song I wrote. It has since been released as part of a movie soundtrack. That exact recording was turned down by countless publishers, record companies, agents, managers and musician advocacy companies; I'm sure you have heard of some of these companies Derek. In fact, several of the above companies went as far as to critique this song with extreme predjudice. I have been working toward getting a deal for many years without much success. I have a few friends that got their brass ring very quickly. Now, I have a young daughter that wants to break into the biz, "kazam" her first demo I produced has been picked up and could possibly yield her a major recording contract. I have come to beleive there is nothing set in stone, there are no brass rings waiting, nobody is going to help(except Derek Sivers), I must figure this business out on my own. Once I learned and accepted this, everything became much easier. Thanks for all of your help Derek you are truly AWESOME!

Peace,

Jimmy/J.T.TRED

I will Help someone help themselves to help me!

See: www.taxi.com/747networkz

www.cdbaby.com/kidokompany

Kido from a UFO!

When you think that nobody's going to help you, does that encourage you or discourage you?

The fact that nobody is going to help me achieve my musical goals & success (or even care, unless $$ are being made) may be what keeps me up at night - relentlessly working to succeed on my own efforts!

It is a harsh reality, & I think it applies to many aspects in life. If YOU have the desire and ambition to succeed, it will happen - if YOU don't, nothing will happen. AND NOBODY WILL CARE.

As a 19 year old guitar player, obsessed with achieving success with music, I am thankful it is this way. NOBODY IS GOING TO HAND IT TO YOU ON A SILVER PLATE. Good. It separates the wheat chaff. I wouldn't want that. I enjoy figuring everything out and watching myself (& projects) grow. It's like a game, there's a lot more involved than composing music.

Good Luck musicians, we're on our own :)

-Luke O'Farrell

The truth will set you free. When you get it on your own, you will appreciate it more.

Dereck, you have already helped me in many ways. I have recorded 3 CD projects that I paid for myself and put on Cd Baby for sale.I work a fulltime day job as a banker.I am in sales and know that you have to promote yourself.It takes time and hard work.You need to network, mail to radio stations, try to get airplay, There is no magic secret formula. There is no big time agent or investor that will come along and make you a star. That only happens in the movies. Reality is you make your own destiny and success. As an artist if you dont have a business head also and know how to promote yourself and sell yourself along with your god given talent no one will walk up and say I want to make you a star and put you on tour and make your first album.You have to make it happen yourself. In reading these replys some of the people have written, some of them get it others do not.There is a whole lot of musical talent in this world only a handfull will have huge careers with tours and recordings and tv appearances, because they have the drive ,passion, talent, know how and guts to go after it. Also the most important part, their talent is something special ,unique and crowd pleasing that will make a promoter and decent agent some $$ as well as the artist. If you love music and believe in your self and your talent be happy with the success you derive from it yourself and sing or play because you love to do it and love to make people happy . Merry Christmas to all of you and keep the music in your hearts.

Barbara Ann Van

"You don't create what you want, you create what you give your attention to, whether you want it or not"

It's true... no one will help you, if you believe it. There are many people who would love to be a contribution to your talents. The key is to 1st, get clear what it is you want and 2nd, start sharing what you are up to and 3rd, request what it is you need.

Some of the greatest successes have come out of financial hard times. It makes us much more creative.

www.petegeorge.tv

Gezus, inspiration up the yang!

I'm not discouraged by the fact that nobody wants to help me. What discourages me is the fact that there are so many people out there helping themselves. Those people probably have more experience in the music scene and a hotter flame under their asses.

I'm more of a lone wolf, the modest samurai, the gentle giant, the clark kent, the dude that doesn't feel comfortable selling his music not only because it's not the best he's ever heard but because he was always shy and underestimates his potential.

I feel that a great song is a great song, and I like to think that as long as I focus on my music I'll hopefully at least pull a Van Gogh on everyone. Haha!

Good luck to everyone else! I'll see you in the next life!

Adam N.

Been there done that and who gives a damn! Just put one foot in front of the other and forget about the "Bigtime." You don't want to be owned by anything or anybody. Stay in control and do the best you can. There was a time, but it is no more. Stop dreaming and get to livin'. Good luck, and I'll see you all on the road, I hope!! Don't call me Mr. or Gramps. Just call me Brad and let the music do the talkin'. Help each other where you can and remember it all comes around. Oh! Only play for nothing when you are helping a good cause. Don't let people take advantage of you.

God bless you all!

Bradley Winfield Parker

It's funny seeing peoples responses of, yes it's encouraging, but it's also discouraging. It's funny because if it's discouraging why do it. Life is too short to waste your time on things you get discouraged about.

Hi Derek:

The Truth no longer discourages me. I'm happy just being able to make my music videos and put them on YouTube. They go around the world and people do watch and listen to them. My music videos touch people's heart around the world, and I hope it infuses them all with good feelings and a renewed commitment to be and share Love.

I appreciate being able to put my albums up on CD Baby but am not too concerned about sales. If I were motivated by money=sucess I'd miss out on the bliss of performing and producing. Not having funds is a drag, but it does cultivate one's engenuity. Music after all is a celebration of life and living. If I do something that people like, that's pretty good, but the real reward is living a long life and still being able to play one's original songs and sing them too. The Music is it's own Reward. I'm blissed because the music lives inside. It's not a business. It's a way of living and loving and finding liberation from the monotony of habitual existance. Don't ever deny the World your music because they don't want to pay for it. Music is a blessing and it is our gift to Humanity and logged into the "annals" of CiviliZation for all Time to come. So Play and Play and Play and see if you can get the World to play along with you.

Love and Aloha... Harmony

It is encouraging and discouraging. I think at first it is a little heartbreaking and scary to know that everything is reliant on your own motivation and determination, but after that feeling subsides I think it can be very freeing and encouraging. It just takes me a moment to get over the fact of life and get inspired to make myself succeed.

The life of an artist is seemingly full of struggle,

Some times though some one comes along that has so much faith in what you do, they won't leave your art to die, and that is a very rare and special gift to be given in this life. Having faith is a powerful thing. There are people that do make a difference, that do help. Like you Derek!

Rachel

Rachel

Hello, That ship laying in the water some people would regard as stranded, not me. The power of the moon bringing the tide in wil lift this ship afloat it can the be steered to any destination. Positivity is always my view of life. God Bless you Derek.

I think getting help with the non-music related aspects of our business always seems to be a wonderful oasis all indie-artists have embedded in there brain - but, keeping that thought in your sub-conscious is key - if it slips into your conscious thoughts you will become dependent upon getting help - consequently, you will squander your valuable time searching for help rather than sticking to your original plan of creating, recording, performing and promoting your art as best you can.

I think back to a band I was in around the early 70's. We managed to secure an audition with a guy who was managing Big Brother & the Holding Company after Janis Joplin. He listened to us at rehearsal and said he didn't think we were ready. He said don't go shopping for a manager to make you. Work on your music, learn about the business, play alot. Good managers will come to you, you don't need to look for them. I think the idea is,don't wait around for some magic person to show up and change your life. Just get out and do it.

I believe we have now entered a season(that is just beginning) where the models of the business of music and all other forms of entertainment/media are going to be radically changing. They will follow our society and economy.

Most musicians do not understand the laws of business and how money is cultivated and grown. I agree no one will offer help, because music in itself has no real value. You cannot eat it or wear it or live in it or drive it. That is what artist's dont see.

I believe that for the last 40 years, the music business has been riding and consuming the creative burst of energy released by a large group of musicians/artists that really only performed and recorded because of an overriding PASSION for music alone...They were not seeking investors,money,fame,fortune,etc...per se. Those followed in the music's wake as a matter of course.

The reality for us today is finding a way to produce and pay for your music yourself. Keep your job and find ways to make money to put into the music and grow it...

If that means limitations on what you can do, so be it.

Money is far to valuable in our present and future state to use on art so the art of music will find a way out into the streets by some new means(or old means).

This reality is not what musicians want to hear,but you can see it happening every day. I accept it and deal with it.

Music will always find its way for those who seek it and have an overriding passion to perform and write music so others may enjoy and receive positive energy from our gift.

I am a true believer that the cream will rise to the top.

You just have to take it day by day and follow your gut and have faith in your work and promote, promote, promote.

You are the only one who can do that.

I can't remember accomplishing any of my achievements with someone else's help.

If anything, some resent you for even trying and do their best to drag you down instead.

No one to help me? OK, not with sums like those you mention, but I've had good musicians help me record many of my songs throughout the years, and while I haven't got many grants, my group "The Runaway Kantele" as a group got a grant to pay for the expenses of recording a demo.

Maybe I've been lucky or maybe it's a good idea to be stubborn? I haven't been able to make a living out of y music, but I don't worry. I also enjoy driving school kids to/from school, or driving a mail van etc.

And some people who really helped me this autumn were the Nordic Institute of Aland who sent me and a guitarist on a tour of the Faeroe islands + arranged with a local flute/keyboard player for the tour.

Being able to show people I've had this response from an institution like that could be helpful for the next step: More tours, CD (recording paid by the abovementioned grant) etc. Who knows?

I once had a bassist from NYC who said people are this laid back only on the west coast and in Scandinavia. He may be right. I don't worry.

I also don't want anyone to dicktate (sic!) what music I should be doing. That's why I keep doing day jobs.

If “Nobody’s going to help you. It’s all up to you” is a fact, another is SOME incredible music is never going to be heard: SOME incredibly gifted musicians couldn’t promote themselves out of a wet paper bag. And they never will be able to. No matter how much pep talk they receive, no matter how many Anthony Robbins type seminars they attend, their incredible music will never be heard by more than a handful. SOME, not even that. Not all will be happy with that. Some will be discouraged. Some will be right proper pissed. Some will give up, give in or get lost. Some will jump off a bridge. Some will never give up their day job and come to the end of their life feeling no less discouraged that they “did not make it in music” than they did when they were 21. That’s the way it goes and everybody knows. But this is about making your music “famous”. Earning a “living” from your music. Not about “making music.”

How can you make $5000 a month from gigging, so that an agent will be interested enough to take it to the next level? Jesus wept! How long is a piece of string....Some music makers couldn’t answer that question if they were being dangled by their ankle from a hovering helicopter 10000 feet over the Grand Canyon. The moon, the stars, the planets, the satellites and the space men will never line up for these people. Because some people are not self-promoters and they never will be. It doesn’t mean anything about how good or bad their music is. It has nothing to do with music.

Whether that’s a shame, I don’t know. Quite frankly, I don’t care. It makes no difference to music. If you want to be famous, good luck. If you want to be famous making music, good-luck. Just don’t bullshit yourself. Give the whole self-promotion, ambassador, emissary trip a try. A damn good try! But if you think you’re flogging a dead horse you probably are. That may be the day the penny may drop and drop hard. Wow, no one is going to help me. It is up to me. And SOME will realise it ain’t gonna happen because I can’t do it.

That may be the day to ask: Why am I making music? Who am I making music for? And, quite possibly, the most important one: Do I love making music s-o-o-o much that I would (continue) to do it for F-R-E-E?

I have never known oneone out there to help me ring my own bell. Besides if someone else had control, it would take away your own ideas and the personal touch. But to have someone to help in finding gigs could be very nice.

It is the truth.

Well, I have gotten excited in the past about powerful people who started to manage or sign us or whatever.. but I found that waiting for them to phone back or followthrough on certain promises was frustrating.. If it took too long,

I'd finally start acting as if I'd never met them

and booking myself.. and then they'd be truly surprised at what I'd done on my own. Also, some things I got for free because folks knew I didn't have the backing of big corporate labels. One very nice man who was East Coast mgr. of Tower Records actually said to me that not only would he sell my cds but he would put me in the listening stations in his stores because he enjoyed helping out musicians that he liked as opposed to promoting the records he was "supposed" to promote. I later found out that record companies pay alot of money for those listening stations. I only hope that I will keep your words in mind and keep helping myself as much as I can. It has happened in fits and starts through the years, but on reflection after reading this post by you, Derek, I realize that the best times have been when I have done something for myself. We bought our own camera because a "director" took too long to finish our video. THE HIPPY NUTS have been staying busy and rehearsing as much as we want to, not only when somebody else has time to rehearse with us. We no longer limit ourselves by others' conflicts of interest or time. We are grateful for the time people give us but we also try to give ourselves time too. Happy Holidays, Kathena www.thehippynuts.com

Derek - it's the same as when you entertain the idea that there is no god. Once you realize you are all alone here you start to enjoy on a deep level; you also begin to kick ass every breath you take.

Before I read the other comments let me say that I am not confident in my marketing skills plus I don't have any contacts although I am beginning to play out more and attend 5 songwriter conferences every year. On the plus side I write great songs. Derek spoke the truth and that is what I want to hear, I want reality in my life, I only want dreams in my songs. I'm not a kid anymore and can recognize when someone is BSing me as some will always try to do. Thanks Derek for your honesty

If the situation of lacking help is to be compared to the obvious encouragement of help, then it is irrefutable that it is discouraging to lack help.

The tasks are not even always evident. And some tasks are not possible without help. Most of the optimists here are involved in popular music, where with effort and ingenuity it is possible to coordinate a half dozen or fewer musicians. But if you want to write an opera and get it produced, it is simply not possible to perform your task without help. This is one of the many reasons music is tending away from classical and artful to popular and businesslike. Patronage is basically dead. The help that composers got in the past is not there now. Being a classical composer in America is like being a European born in exile in a foreign cemetery, that is located right next door to a skating rink. You hear all kinds of enthusiasm going on by and for others, doing something other than you are doing trying to get out of the cemetery. All the people at the skating rink can do is invite you to join them. But if you are not interested in skating, your situation is discouraging. Maybe this is why I put a picture of myself at Schoenberg's grave at my Facebook page.

you are so right my friend and i sing as a duo and we call ourself KS and we have found that doing as much as u can urself makes u better. we learned to mix,produced,write,sing,arrange and even record an engineer our music. we did this because for one, noone really gives a care about ur music if that don't benefit more then u. 2nd ,people only want to be down with something that's already hot they don't want to put in the hard work and go through the ups an downs with u.so don,t get discourage u can make it happan. doing it ourselves we got many gigs we did the star spanglebanner for the bulls, bears ,marlins ,cubs whitesox dolphins .we also open for durhill next joe jaggededge omarion mario tlc islybrothers robinthick many more. we had a sit down with universal but we didn't sign that ok cause aleast they are talking about us we also wrote and produced two song for group oversea through sony, don't think they made the album but it let us know that we giong in the right direction with anyones help. It's KS Baby,"TELL A FRIEND" www.myspace.com/ksthenucomers

Hey ... I've never been helped, yet I made my law firm pretty successful.

When I decided to produce music too, I didn't expect no help but from the musicians believing in it and recording with me.

Now the music industry has changed massively and let's put it this way: if you weren't helped in the 70s it was a different thing. Now artists got internet and can put their music out there.

No wonder investors don't bet on new artists ... they don't know exactly where the future of the music is going.

I wouldn't invest ... would you ?

Important is to be part of this new phenomenon where music is created DESPITE investors.

In one world not being helped is very exciting .... we are part of a BIG historical phase .... let's enjoy it and make it the best we can.

Personally, I like being in control of my business and my affairs.

Even though it would be easier to get agents and labels to gamble on you, I'm not sure that would be my choice.

I believe I'm more than qualified to manage and contribute my own music myself for the next years. So, your statement is (if anything) only encouraging.

Gleðileg jól

To be a working musician you have to be a business person. This is a business, the ultimate aim is profit. If you just want to make music for the joy of it, go for it that's a beautiful thing, just don't expect someone to bankroll you while you're doing it! Booking agents who don't book you are making a business decision, not saying they don't love your music, just that it won't fill their venue and cover their overheads and make them a profit. This is reality, enjoy :-)

hi derek the simple answer is no it does,nt discourage me it,s up to you sitt at home and think of what coulda be or work your trade it,s the guy&dolls that comin to see you that,s important not some jerk in a office decideing if your music is any good as musicians we know how good or shitte our stuff is the only think that get my back up is the flower smelliers the dujdes that tell ya how great u,r and promise to play your music and dont ...i dont need some flower smellier blowin smoke ... you eoinly get outta this music biz what yeah put in so fight the good \fight and to does who read dis your time will come.keep the faith remember one man,s junk is another man,s treasure so treasure what you got the believe

For me it can go both ways. Sometimes it does get me a bit down. But I'd say 99% of the time, it gets me moving. When I'm tired at night and know I have to get up early, the thought that no one else is going to get the shit done is what keeps me at it. No one outside of our little circle cares or not if we make it, not really. And I want to know that when we get there, it was because we wanted it and we worked at it. It will be something we can be really proud of.

Yes, it is discouraging, but I prefer to look at it as a challenge. If I can then make it, the end result will be that much more sweeter: the fruits of MY labors.

Incidentally, this is the case in virtually EVERY endeavor today: noone is going to help, you're on your own. Stop looking for handouts, roll up your sleeves and get to work!

I learnt this lesson nearly 20 years ago. It is almost impossible to get someone else to believe and invest in YOUR dream. For the start, you gotta carry the cross so to speak, and believe that when it's off the ground, folks could come flooding in with support.

The truth is it's been that way for years. Unless you're moving a lot of units (by yourself) record companies won't even take a glance at you. Far as management, that has always been a close friend or a family member or some nobody wanting to be somebody, claiming they know people that know people in the business (yet some how they got time for you). My advice, sell as many CDs as you can to who ever you can in your own city, for a dollar if you have to. Give singles away, go to clubs and talk to DJs, be hard headed, don't take no for an answer. Unless you like being lied to, there is no easy way only HARD WORK!

This is most definitely encouraging for me. That's been my philosophy since I started. I once got distracted because one of my groups gained some nice popularity. But quickly learned that it doesn't matter even if you get signed by say...Universal/Republic, you still have to do it yourself!!

i have triplets and i do kids stuff so my success is that 6 little eyes 3 mouths and 6 ears are singing dancing glistening as they say lets play dad's rockin roll.

i am getting my kids stuff to any one who will listen and then hoping that kids like it like mine do.

i wish it were easy but i have a dream for my kids and i am looking to the future when they are playing and doing their thing. i never thought anything was easy in life and it is not.

Derek,

I personally loved this post, but I think it is a little oversimplified. Everyone is a little different, and artists are even more so prone to insecurity which plagues us all.

Essentially, there is something which divides artists into two groups. And quality is it. We can be wildly insecure but also grandiose at the same time, and not perceive if we are... really.. any good.

Art is self expression. To be paid big bucks for your self expression is a luxury by definition. To be paid for your skill is a whole different area. Some people will never get there, regardless of how much they 'build'. And maybe there is not a 'there', either.

That said, I do get help from so many people, and it is because of my talent, more than anything, and my persistence, which I have to acknowledge. But, I love to read your posts and the one above, especially, because I can always do more and take more responsibility and be more organized and utilize my time better. And then the help I get will be that much more 'helpful'...

:-)

The only person under the sun to help me first is me. No one will go out of his/her way to invest in an act that has not proven successful unless the act is willing to take the first step forward. It is encouraging to me that someone has turned me down, which means that I must turn me up and rise above the zero-line of others....

When I put out my first album I thought "everyone will realize how brillant I am and want to help me" Then the reality of "so how many thousands of records have you sold, how many thousands of fans do you have and how many shows do you sell out slapped me back to earth!!!. I've got stories--I'm sure you do as well. The bottom line (for me) has been not what someone will do for you but what are you willing to do for yourself. If you don't believe in you why should anyone else?

One of my earliest learnings was that no one was going to help me beyond an encouraging word now and then; and that anything which happened would only do so if I made it happen. It was daunting but I'd been faced with the impossible a few other times in my then 52 years. I took it one step at a time. Once I understood I was on my own, I got serious about setting goals and getting clear about what I really wanted, tempered with a practical assessment of my resources. A combination of networking and right-place/right-time resulted in a relationship with Ryles Jazz Club in Cambridge, MA that has continued since 1999 to now. Most of what was for sale to 'help' musicians didn't work for me or involved skills I had to some degree. I began to get there weren't really any experts out here. I targeted a handful of people I wanted to meet and engage as supporters and colleagues. I composed a different strategy for meeting each person and step-by-step, one at a time, my relationships and goals began to fall into place.

Here's where other musicians and industry professionals will help: if you reach out to them first. Operating on the theory 'you've got to give to get', I learned my marketing and business skills were a fascination and valued currency. Mostly, I just stepped in where I saw opportunity. There was a vocal showcase where no one wanted to sing first. I saw it as an opportunity to learn how to open a show. Tuesday and Wednesday nights are off nights generally among most venues. I tell a venue to give me their worst night and let me show them what I can do to fill the house with new business. I've put the under-pinnings in place - - the mailing lists and regular promotions and websites. The internet is my place of business. I sell my music world-wide from my home-office thanks to you and CDBaby. It's the under-pinnings that take the time - - the business cards, the graphics, the text itself, the press kits, the demo's and we know it goes on ad nauseum. In a way, Derrick, it doesn't matter what we think. We all understand the reality. This forum is helpful for understanding we are all in this together. best, Patricia Adams

I keep going no matter what, I do get discouraged, some people seem to get help, press , money and don't do anything yet it falls in their lap. I always hope but I never give up.

I used to be depressive. Maybe I'm still a little, but the very first day I realised that no one could help me, nor friends, nor fmaily, nor doctor, nor medication, it was the day when I started to feel better.

I use that metaphor to recall that thought :

Imagine you're in water, don't know how to swim...

People usually stand on the brim and shout "yeeey you can make it, yeeeah dont drown ! yeaaaah!"

But no one went into the water, to support my weight, no one would have gone into the water, to make me live.

Music is the same.

It is only when you're a well talented swimmer that people get interested in your race.

So, when I'm told (by myself) that no one is gonna help me, courage fills me.

Why?

Because life is a game, a roleplaying game, where I chosed honesty creation and courage as skills.

kisses derek!

No one's going to help you? or everyone's going to help you? I prefer the second one...and i have foudn it to be so-as long as you REALLY want help, perhpas the truth for some of us is we're only looking for someone to do our dirty work- for free! do you acually know what you do? do you love what you do? really? if so, then just keep doing it...

I actually feel motivated by the idea of having to do things myself. It's reassuring in a way. You know you don't have to wait for somebody to come and make you happy. And that's true for everything...



I believe there's is a way of doing all these things. Your own way.

It's about being creative somehow. Like, if you only have a few notes and 2 chords (or less), you can still make an amazing composition...

Anyways, I wish everybody the best of luck and the inner peace, trust, focus, courage,... to do to what you do best.

Happy holidays.

erwin

I began my musical education at eighteen, with a year's worth of guitar lessons.

Several years later started jamming with a co worker who was far more accomplished than myself.

A few years later we formed a acoustic guitar duo Performing at a local resturaunt, along the way adding band members till we were a full five piece rock band.

Everyone more experienced than myself and because of that, eventually getting pushed out of the very band I started.

we remained friends, and they pitched in while I recorded my first solo CD "Time Frozen" in 1998.

Thier band sans me, quickly disolved while I contined to perform as a solo act.

A few years later some of my former bandmates helped me record "Swat's Candy Kitchen".

I formed the Kirby Swatosh Band(let try to kick me out of that one!)with many of the orignal band members and in 2004 opened for southern california rock group dada(my hereos).

with the Kirby Swatosh Band we released "About Time" in 2007, and I just finished my latest solo effort "Toys in the Static".

My lessons?

Many of my successes were because of stubborness and not knowing that I shouldn't be able to do what I did.

Surrounding my self with people more talented than me was key, and not holding a grudge for past discouragements.

Two years ago a friend of mine signed a one CD record deal. The record company invested 10,000 Euros to buy the masters off another label, and a year later my friend got to number 1 in Spain and grossed over 1 million Euros in sales and copyrights... Prior to that, he was not earning 5000 Pounds a month gigging... Help IS possible, like winning the jackpot on the lottery! Do not count on it too much, but be sure to be ready to receive it, if it should ever come your way... Merry Christmas Derek :-) PS When will you find time to listen to my new CD?..

We musicians live by illusion.

The illusion of fame,

The illusion of being worshiped,

The illusion that our music has the power to change the world.

The illusion that our music is as important to others as it is to ourselves - "THE most important thing in the world".

So... yes, it can be really discouraging to disclosure the reality of music business.

But the attraction to illusion is stronger than any reality so, the musicians will find a way to delude themselves again, turning the discourage into encourage.

Keep it coming, Derek, very nice and useful thinking.

Not having someone help us used to discourage me, now, I see it as a challenge. Our latest CD is self-recorded and self- produced, but when we needed to mix it down and master it, we paid for the right engineers with the skills to do it. That was a fairly large investment, but one that we'll be able to recover with CD sales. With the help of the Internet(which wasn't available 20 years ago), we have been able to get our current project out to people all over the world, and we are now being approached by people who are in a position to help us further. I've learned more about the Music Business in the last six months than I did the previous thirty years! It has been a very interesting ride!

I don't believe anything should stand in your way of getting what you want...and I don't believe we should expect things to be done for us or people to pay our way. If you really want to get somewhere with your music...focus on what it is you have to do to get there. Hard work will pay off.

I've had doors shut in my face. I think in the early years I was discouraged...not anymore. I've come to expect that I will get to where I want to be, on my own.

Great post. I agree completely with what you're saying.

It's not more isolation that the independent musician has these days.. it's more freedom.

Fires me up just thinking about it.

That's great news! Not that I haven't heard you, Ariel, David, and others say it before. It's incredibly liberating knowing that I don't have to worry about charming some third party into helping me. I can concentrate on what matters and makes sense for developing myself as an artist.

oh, the harsh truth. this is where 'how much do you want it' comes into play for me personally...

Derek, While I percieve that your report is a general truth based on the prevailing condition of the industry and society, personally, I would still find it very disappointing that no one is going to help me, because I still believe someone will. Sometimes, there are a few exceptions to the general condition. Nevertheless, if no one comes forward to help, because I see what I do as not only a career but a calling, I feel that I must continue forward with no courage being sapped away.

The more work you do the more you will get paid.

I'd rather sell 10,000 CD's at an $8 profit per CD-That's $80,000 for me.

To do it through a company and getting $1 per CD then you have to sell 80,000 CD's to make the same amount of money.

We love to play music and write and all that but at the end of the day if you call this your career then you should get paid and think about the financial aspect every step of the way too.

Five years ago I took a chance and had some of my songs mastered. I definitely had to invest in this process and definitely had no idea what to expect from other people I would show my "finished" music to.

Well, I took another chance and gave the cd to the local radio station, and next thing I know, Im getting a lot of airplay. This led to me releasing an album, getting named Electronica Artist of the Year by the New Tiimes, and eventually starting a legit record label, Circuitree Records.

I had always hoped that the many talented people around me would get excited about the label and want to help. Instead I found that although friends helped occasionally, mostly no one does anything for free, especially if you aren't already willing to do that task yourself.

So here I am, 20 grand spent later, as well as countless hours I will never get back, and I have come to this conclusion: I could have done it all in a simpler, wiser way, without borrowing money or paying other artists to be on my compilations (I wanted to be there next to the hot artist in order to get noticed), or hiring people to get involved. Sure I most likely would not have gotten to the same place on my own, but atleast I would have the feeling that I would have the sense that I dont owe another person a thing. Plus maybe all that time I spent on the label could have been spent, you know, making better music.

So the question to ask is what is really important to you? To make great music? Or be the cool new band in Pitchfork?

FOCUS ON YOUR ULTIMATE GOAL. LET THAT BE YOUR COMPASS. FOLLOW YOUR BLISS.

I had to learn the hard way.

Hi Derek - It's not just you. Although brutal honesty may be difficult to digest, honesty is important. We all get discouraged when we get tired - tired of doing it all and facing the reality of what it costs to support a musical career. It's best to be realisitc but it shouldn't discourage if what you are doing is for the right reasons. And then - I have met some of the greatest people on the planet since I took over the mission to continue a friend's musical legacy and as challenging as it all is MOST of the time, I wouldn't trade the friendships formed with these wonderful musicians and artists, who while struggling with their own survival and the survival of their craft have contributed in countless ways to help continue a fellow musician's legacy. We all just need to remember why we do what we do and to "find small ways to move towards the big picture."

Hi Derek,

Another possible answer would have been to ask that artist if they would be willing to check out the "Destiny Bridge" program put together by Dio guitarist Craig Goldy. For not a lot of $, Craig gives you a real shot at getting what your after by giving your music to the people you want to connect with. Managers, promoters, lables, etc. Derek, you did know this, right? I hope after all those emails you finally did talk with Craig & check out his program. You did, right? Artist need to know that although there's no guarantee , there is a way to make the connections they need.

I had that answer a couple of times when I was in the 20s (I am now in my 50s) and it never discouraged me and gave me the strength to go on and on. I know is difficult but that is the ONLY way we have.

Thanks Derek to focus everytime on something so important.

rob

It's encouraging, definitely--how could one possibly feel encouraged by the prospect of depending on others? DIY isn't simply an ethic--it's the ONLY option for most of us. But that doesn't mean we've got NO help.

The fact is, most of us who get anywhere at this have had a lot of help from others, starting with our own musician friends and colleagues, who share tips, contacts, gigs, and countless valuable minutiae (where to get a decent meal, etc).

Help comes most readily to those who help themselves. No one wants to take responsibility for your career--and you shouldn't want to give up that responsibility to anyone!

BUT, there are lots of folks--musicians, music business people, and fans--who are willing to help in particular and limited ways, if they see that their effort and kindness will actually result in something. If you want help, make it obvious that you're DOING something--then people will be much more interested in helping.

Hey now, Derek. You've received some excellent responses to your question. And as usual, you bring up very thought-provoking stuff. Once again, the circumstances appear to be in the "glass is half-full or half-empty" scenario. Nevertheless, I think many artists out there usually hang onto their platinum dreams. It keeps them moving forward in their pursuit of happiness and, hopefully, greater prosperity.

Performers need remember that none of the great ones actually started at the top. Even the "King" (Elvis Presley) had to carve his path with low-level agents until he "proved himself" to be the great artist and entertainer that he was. But again, there is always a price one must pay for greatness. It's an out-of-pocket and/or an out-of-freedom circumstance. Elvis attained a level where his literal freedom was dimished significantly. To me, that's a very heavy price to pay for fame and fortune. And I actually saw his experience with that, first-hand, backstage at the Hilton Hotel in Las Vegas.

My outlook is to garner the most comfortable living you can from the work you do. Build upon all of that for your future. And once you've attained a level that truly meets your needs, you can then take a little time to reflect on how you got there. During the interim, however, just stay confident and stay focused on the reality of your artistic pursuits. Learn and grow, and choose your steps wisely.

~DF

The performance side of the music business is one which fosters immediate gratification between the Artist and audience.As such, competition, jealousy, and a general negativity pervade the culture within the artist community. I say, help as many of your fellow artists as possible. That help is no less invaluable both the giving of it and receiving, than if you were a scientist of sorts, assisting and/or mentoring emerging professionals where gratification may or in some cases, may not be immediately measurable.

Realizing this, I found a pretty simple answer to help myself:

I get out of bed and hit the phones for 3 hours at least 3 mornings a week. I keep detailed notes who I reached, who I left a message for, when to call back (when they have their new budget, when they usually do the scheduling, whether they adopted a new pet or had an anniversary). This way I've established a rapport. I make notes of my BOOKINGS! Afterwards, I write down how many attended, what got people dancing, what needs work. Repeat bookings have gotten MUCH easier this way.

I do see some folks with a real support network around them. I don't know what they're paying their publicist/ handler. But I found (booking one venue myself), that having a positive and mutually supportive attitude really helps. A long-time friend, spouse, family member can really help, even if they only take over one specific task, but do it consistently. So, with no money to throw at "professionals", I do cherish a little help from my friends.

Making a good living from your musical endeavors is akin to winning the lottery. Best to have another motivation for playing music besides making a good living.

Terrill: Congrats! You're right. (Thank you!)

I really did mean for this to be just a thought-exercise, like “Assume nobody will help you. Now what?”

That way, if someone shows up to help - (which they often do!) - it will be a nice surprise but not something you're counting on.

Derek,

Generally people like helping other people. If they pick up the vibe that the person they are helping really is dedicated to their musical passion they usually go overboard to help. Business wise you can only do what you can do. Time is usually a factor because being in charge of creating the songs, playin the songs, recording the songs, promoting the songs, and trying to get ready to do it all over again, well those are a lot of jobs. Each is a full time job that deserves more time than we have available. This is my humble observation. Do your best each day and don't beat yourself up over things you can't control. If you are a writer write or if you are a player play and those things alone will sustain you. No matter what other people think success involves, it really involves you being happy doing what you do. Each song that I finish brings me a feeling of accomplishment that is priceless. Money, fame, or anything else won't bring that same feeling of accomplishment. If we do a deep internal search, then that feeling should be all we need. Sometimes we work hard and get some more stuff but it's never as good as that feeling of accomplishment.

Thanks,

Allen

Never slowed me down in fact it helped me get up earlier and work later.

Mark Daniel Chmiel:

owner/member of THE LIMIT,LLC

THE LIMIT rock trio, touring, press in the USA, Europe, Asia & S. America, music on sale internationally, supported: Steve Vai, Everclear, Disturbed, Buckcherry, members of Pearl Jam and more on tour....

contact me anytime people, I love to talk and listen.

mcpromotion@gmail.com

p.s. Derek, you're the man!

That is something I've known for a long time. Frankly speaking, no one has ever really helped the way I would have liked them to. I never get discouraged to the point where I stop trying. If you want someone else to believe in you, you must first believe in yourself. True success does not come easy,but those that are deligent shall succeed.

It is a very true and very frustrating fact that it's all up to one little tiny you. Or me, in this case. But it is truth and if you really want it, you've got to do it yourself.

Sometimes I get lost in the "one day someone will take all of this work off my hands and I can focus on writing and performing," which is a lovely thought, but that can never happen if I'm not doing it all right now. No one will come save you from the difficulty of it. You've got to do it yourself, because you love it, and for no other reason.

So yes, being reminded that no one is going to help is centering and keeps me focused. As well as scary and frustrating. Sounds like life, right?

PS...Thanks for your blogs Derek!

NO, NO, NO. To believe in yourself is the basic point for all, so this is not the problem. Dear Derek, Self consciousness it is not enough. I know I am a very good composer, singer, player, engineer. But I cannot do EVERYTHING professionally. I need some partner to help me doing something at the high level. So the Tao way is not enough. I will go on trying to find people not to have money, but to have cooperation. I need Internet experts who like my music and run all over the world with my songs etc.- The team make the strong winning.

seems to me we are all in this -- by this, I mean life -- together. an attitude of cooperation and respect for one's self and others is more useful than thinking no one will help. which is basically the same thing you intend by that, perhaps.

I suppose that honestly it is discouraging, but then again, we are musicians...so what else are we going to do? Whether we make money or not...we are lucky to be the ones that live our art.

With love and gratitude,

Joel Laviolette

and Rattletree Marimba

I didn't even read this blog for weeks because of the title, so I guess that means I'm discouraged by the thought that nobody will help me. :)

The most cherished part of making music is, for me, the collaboration with other musicians. This requires the involvement of other people and the feeling that "I'm in it by myself" - which is a feeling I experience discouragingly frequently - tends to contradict motivation. And happiness, and spiritual progress.

But I know these negative feelings will pass. Being in it by myself is still better than not being in it. :)

Great encouragement, Derek! Just posted a link to this on my Twitter page. "When you think that nobody’s going to help you, does that encourage you or discourage you?" At first, I get discouraged BUT am usually later fueled by the thot that 99% people will get discouraged and then quit AND THIS gives ME a better chance! Besides, I HATE when people tell me I can't do something!!!

First, any artist that thinks anyone, other than a rich uncle, etc., would remotely invest that kind of money in an unproven career, needs to 'get over themselves'. Why do investors invest their money? Duh....to make more money.

Having said that, artist can make a living in music if they have talent, know how to connect with fans, create moments for those fans with their music and build a large fan base. Yes, you do need a decent voice, great music, and know how to entertain.

For an indie artist & their band to be successful, everyone must contribute to that success. Any musician that wants to be paid to practice should not be used....recognize there are many musicians in the world their sole objective is to make money for themselves....they could care less about making you successful...they could care less about touring as well. (Note: I am not condemning musicians...I have ran into musicians that want to be paid to practice & even paid to learn your music while they are at home working on it) One thing I know about the music business is there is nothing that surprises me.

But, if you want to become successful it comes down to how much time you want to comment out of your life to becoming successful? How many great songs you can write or find to record? How many true blue fans you can add to your fan base. WE work with artist to build a minimum fan base of 5,000 - 10,000. Trust me, if you can get to that level you will be able to support yourself, your band, and your tour. If you can only draw 25-100 people at each get, depending on the venue, you are not going to make much money....you will need another job.

Your success comes down to: How much do you "really" want music to be your sole source of income? Their are so many talented artist in the music business that don't understand why they have not become successful, etc.? They are under an illusion of all the support they got from family & close friends when they were performing in the 'rookie world'. Then, the day came when they ventured into the real world of music...a world that can be supportive and a world than can be non supportive depending on how you connect with them. Venue's don't care how great you can sing, instead, care about how many folks your act will bring out to their venue and more importantly how much money they spend while they are there. If you fans come out and sit there all night & drink pop or sweet tea, chances are you will not be invited back & getting that return invitation is what helps grow you career & build your booking base. Plus, if you and your band really suck, don't think for one minute all the venue owners won't spread the word about how bad you are.

There are two guys, in NYC that plays mostly on the street & at different subway stations. They play approximately 20 gigs / month & sell about 800 CD's / month at $10 each. Plus, they have other merch. & they make decent tips. Most band or artist think they are above this type work but, these guys are but one out of many that wanted a career in music & they found a non-glamorous way of making a living.

GOOD NEWS: Most bands can make a living, but, the entire band must be willing to make a 'fair share' contribution. Any band member that won't work on all phases of your career should be replaced as soon as possible....you need a team that works their butts off so everyone can enjoy the resulting benefits.

If you need help...let us know.

--End

Hey Derek, I think it is a good and a hard thing to remember for me. The idea of doing everything seems so overwhelming, but I am reminded of the suggestion you made to 'stop doing the things you don't like and find someone else to do them so you can focus on what you're good at.' That is the biggest thing I need to remember and implement.

I have to be willing to trust another person enough to let them do something small if they want to and already be doing it myself so that I can explain what needs to be done.

This was really good to read and a very good reminder to keep doing more and growing in the areas that make you afraid.

Thanks,

Andrew Hand

http://andrewhand.com

http://songsforoprah.com

As musicians, we don't want to let our own convictions consume us. Don't use your strength to take advantage of the weak. Work with your hands so you can give to others in need not seeing your own profit but the profit of the many. Ask yourself who examines your heart and always be thankful as you persue the things that make peace and the building up of one another.

Be an example to the flock. Pray, listen and learn and answer positively. Like a band or choir, we must have a central unity for a harmonious end result.

Right on. I wish I had come to realize the wisdom reflected in Derek's post many years ago.

I've taken it a step further by totally giving up on any kind of financial success. It's taken many years of mistakes compounded by squandered opportunities compounded by age compounded by having a family compounded by simply becoming sick and tired of it. The funny thing is that now -- after 25 years of professional music making -- I'm free of my own baggage and I'm making by far the best music of my life. I finally have a product that in my heart I know is worth recognition, but I'm completely happy in the knowledge that I won't get any. I'm peaking in the worst economy of my lifetime, have a kid ready for college, and a good day job. I don't have time for anything but recording. No time to market anything, no $$ to spend on it, and no time to gig regularly. I'm done. But at the same time, I'm more into the core of what music means to me than ever before. That's really what it's about for me, I'm discovering. I've learned so much the hard way, that if my youngest (a budding guitar virtuoso) wants to give it a professional whirl, I'm definitely equipped to be her guidance counselor. Anyway, I'm rambling with no real point other than to say focus on your music, never let your ambitions overtake your actual work and be smart. Don't jump, think. Always make sure you're putting your best foot forward. Take your music directly to the people and stop dreaming that some suit will come in, bankroll you, and put you in Madison Square Garden. In the end, even if you don't "make it," you'll have created some art that you can live with.

Derek,

Thanks for the column. I think the "hard" road of not expecting anything and working 24 hours a day to move 1 inch in this business is the only thing you can count on. But those inches add up to feet, and over years miles. And these travels I believe shape us and best of all is shows up in the music-- people can tell you've earned your distance. The phone calls, shedding, small gigs on snowy nights, flat tires, emails, fighting societal pressures, staying true to your hearts wish...this true hard work earns you an ability to write and perform a certain "intangible" way. Best of all, momentum built on hard work is the ultimate advertisement for an agent and investor.

I wish everybody prosperity, success in their journeys.

MM

It can be discouraging, if you allow it to be. I think you have to decide why you're in the music business. If you're in it for the money, get out now. If you're in it because you HAVE TO BE, because you have to write songs and express yourself, then all the negativity in the world won't stop you. You'll do it anyway, because you have to.

If you believe in what you're doing, there's an audience for it. If you build it, they will come. Don't expect an immediate payoff. You won't get rich overnight. Plan to keep the day job to finance your music. Be your own investor. Keep everything in house as much as you can and focus on making the songs, and your live show, as good as they can possibly be.

I'm kind of a control freak anyway, so once you've got other people footing the bill or expecting to make money off of you, it gets a lot less enjoyable for me, because I have to answer to those people. I can't write whatever I want to without thinking about the commercial aspects. It becomes a job at that point.

Totally dig. It doesn't discourage me at all -- makes me feel good about where I sit right now in the business. And it encourages me to work harder.

It's true that no one is there to help independent musicians without trying to get something in exchange. That has been a motivating factor for me to do something about that. I have been around musicians all my life, played in bands for 15 years myself and I wanted to try to give back to indie musicians(I like underdogs) so I started a musicians advocate company that lists thousands of resources to help independent musicians produce, sell and support their music. It's free and my way I trying to give back. So hopefully somebody is going to help you, MusicNomad.com. Check it out and drop us a line if you found it helpful or want us to expand areas. We are only 6 months old so still working on it. Also, we sponsor non-profits that bring music instructors and instruments to underserved children in an effort to give the gift of music as everyone deserves music.

Thank you Derek for the honest and realistic advices!

For myself I experienced the work as an independent musician/songwriter as very time consuming and not rewarding enough. Maybe I make something wrong until these days!

In the past I tried to think economicaly and get the money back I had to spent for every gig/studio-session. But for the future I think I will change my attitude about money-music. Music is rewarding myself already (without money) when I like to play it! So the value of the music I like to play is also something that can/could/should motivate me for future experiences!

But what I feel and experienced and somehow dislike is that the "job" or profession as a musician is not paid enough! Maybe this is because we do art and are no profit centers ?!

The Gandhi quote applies:

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"

There are some who will never agree with you or support your music but if you really have something worthwhile to say with your art then just do what is in your heart and the people will come and gather 'round you.

Just when I make and play music I cant feel encouraged about this.

And then... the success become real

Hey!
I find it actually discouraging! I really wish and want for that positive attitude but after really giving my all, in recording, preforming, advertising... I would just like something or someone to say hey your doing good! Keep up that good work!

both. u may become more determine. but noone could do anything by them selves

I never start a project with the expectationI will get help with it, (even when it seems I might need some). I start the project.
It has happened most often that I could do/figure/manage all that I thought I might need help with, less often someone shows up.

If I cry for help and none replies, I redouble by effort and continue to survive!

cMh

Ich fand Deine Antwort absolut richtig!

Lahm ist, wer sein Schicksal dem Zufall überlässt.

Unendlich gute Chancen seine Ziele zu erreichen hat, wer Mut, Motivation und Fleiss aufbringt.

Ein Snowbird aus Montevideo, Uruguay.

"Help others and you might be surprised what comes your way."

Everyone has a want. If by helping you they can fulfill their want, they will do so.

Although no one wants to help you, if you want to help them first, they will in return help you.

If no body will help you that may be discourage you. But if you can do every thing by yourself and made good results then you will always encourage by yourself and also by others

I think it's great to hear no one is going to help you. That way it's all you on you to "make it" or "break it". Your success does not depend or rely on anyone but yourself. I think its empowering.

Most of the lessons I learned from my parents came by was of observation (as do most valuable lessons) rather than a more, oh, Socratic approach. But one very concise and pithy bit of wisdom she made sure I understood as soon as I could walk was this:
"To rely on others is to be disappointed."
My life's experiences have proven that, with the sole exception of my wife, she was correct.
It's not cynical when it's true.

music too your ears check it out!

sivers, dude ... you are quite right that nobodys' gonna help anybody, its really up to the motivation of the individual at first... but later down the line people with the same interest do help each other out.. but it all begins, starts with 'YOU'.

I wanted to be the lucky 761st responder. See, 7 is 6 plus 1 . oh, wow !! Have you ever been the 761st responder? I doubt it !

What's really amazing is that this simple post has gotten so many responses, and it's not even sent out to the world, but to just the world of musicians trying to get a gig. YOu hit a nerve. And I like your answer, because its so much about working on what you CAN control.

I think your answer was incredibly helpful.

It was honest.

It was true.

People rarely take the time to share that kind of knowledge, the kind that is a kick in the backside, that says if you really, really want this you have to work hard but here are some tips to get you started.

Well, I have to admit this is showing itself to be true...but even more head scratching is that many who "might" help (in my case a major label with the money and contacts) often don't know what to do...so what's the difference?

после прочтения вашего блога - вдохновляет:)

P.S. - почему тут нет ни одного комментария?:)

Initially, having nobody to help used to make me feel 'stuck'.

But I realize when I start *doing* the best I can in those circumstances, it takes away focus from the 'being stuck' feeling, and before I know it I am well on my way to being where I want to be.

And I like to keep reminding myself that I always do the best I can, and my best changes each time. It's different when I am healthy, it different when I am ill, it is different when I am tired, it is different when I am happy.

The bank won't loan money unless you don't need it. It's the same in life. Nobody wants to be around a loser. Your attitude is your altitude. Keep the spirits up and keep chipping away. Someday that big tree will fall.

i am going to release 5 songs next year, and knowing that nobody will help me encourages me a little because i have nothing to lose.

but it's discouraging also because the possibility of not making it is huge in music.

Personally, I think your answer is most discouraging - although that seems to be the current attitude in the Music Business (and just about everything else in this Country) You're so right - though, it's cynical and it's 'Every Man/Woman for him/herself - so, why even BOTHER to write a book that for the most part, except to make you a few bucks, will NOT help most people.

Reason this Country has gone downhill, is the amount of Greed by the Business People who oversee the Creative one (who do all the dirty work) and then make all the 'Business' types super-rich.

So, People, save your Money, and make it anyway you can - preferably on your own, if you have the strength, fortitude & PRESERVERANCE - BELIEVE IN YOURSELF, and let these 'Business' types go to HELL! The BEST feeling in the World - is that you made it on your own, and have NO ONE you owe ANYTHING TO, so do lots or research - pay your way for expertise AS YOU GO, and then take the plunge and do what you love Best - Music. Best of Luck!

Ermutigt oder entmutigt es dich, zu denken, dass dir niemand helfen wird?

Kann ja nur ermutigen, weil nichts anderes übrigbleibt. ERFRISCHEND :)

I must say its discouraging...we are out here working our ass off because we want to get discovered and ding a light switch just went off in my head and Derek Sivers you might be genius because we havent been out working for someone we've been out here working for ourselves...
"SELF ESTABLISHMENT" that's the quote for the newyear so happy
"SELF ESTABLISHMENT"

En un tiempo eso me desalentaba, hasta que descubrì que yo soy lo ùnico que tengo seguro; y aprendi a usar mis propias aptitudes y talentos, ahora no espero nada de nadie,siempre considero que estoy solo.
Todo depende de mi.

Thanks Derek. Some of the greatest gifts I've received have been *not* getting what I thought I wanted.

Traveling is at least as good as arriving (e.g., half of acting is reacting, music is as much what you don't play as what you do), and the path is actually what it is all about.

Deming said, "Without a theory, there is no learning." The theory need not be right. You just need to have it, act upon it, reflect upon it, and act upon that reflection.

No me desalienta, me describe. Llevo haciéndolo todo solo desde que empecé mi carrera y sé que debo seguir por esa ruta. No hay mejor satisfacción que llegar a una meta con el empuje de tu propio esfuerzo. Ahora, en cuestiones de arte siempre hay un componente que va más allá de simple esfuerzo. Hablo del talento individual, de la magia con la que uno nace… todavía no sé si tengo suficiente de eso como para trascender. Pero algo me dice que lo voy a averiguar.

You are all delusional. I guarantee that everyone has received help from someone along the way. So what you have here is a list of 773 people who have neglected to thank at least one someone, who without their (apparently unnoticed, unrecognized & surely unacknowledged) help, would not be where they are today.

Well, I would say it's all circumstantial. Some are quick to ask for help, so it can be a rather immediate motivational reaction for them not to get it. But if one is exhausted, tried their hardest and still can't find resolve, then being declined help of any sort can be a solid coin toss between devastation and inspiration to try even harder.

Personally, it takes a while for me to reach out for a helping hand. I can see myself being discouraged by the lack of support before picking myself up to try again, try harder, try a new approach.

I am a singer/songwriter with this very question on my mind lately. I am on the verge of releasing my first album with my partner, and we are asking, "How can we build our virtual presence enough to catch the attention of real people?"

If your friend needs $500,000 to begin something, he's thinking in the wrong direction. And this is the lesson I reinforce to myself every day:

Question: "What can I do today, right now, with what I have to work with?"

Answer: "A hell of a lot more than most people think."

Así es que vivi, no esperando ayudas. Por suerte me di cuenta de esto desde chica y me basta confiar en mi...No logre todo lo que quise, pero obtuve varias cosas valiosas incluso que cuando sólo eran un objetivo,"poco realistas y posibles" para muchos. Aunque pocos se atrevieron a decirmelo en ese momento, sino después que las obtuve. Para confiar en mi -aunque los demás no hagan- fue y se que es mi principal motor para movilizarme. No hay peor fracaso, que ni siquiera intentar. Hoy puedo cambiar mi rutina poco gratificante, pero no tengo en claro cómo. Por primera en la vida, me gustaria que me ayudaran, que alguien/es saquen de este laberinto. Estoy algo cansada y desmotivada... Espero que se me pase...y porque no va a venir a mi la solución?? Alguna vez tiene que ser fácil.

I think I get so much help from so many people that it's unbelievable.....its really about being able to recognise it as such. All these articles and responses have been help to my knowledge, links, networks, what to try, contacts and so forth. Your response to that guy was helpful - whether it was the answer he wanted or not, that was how you helped him.

As for being encouraged or discouraged - that can be different on different days! I wouldnt worry about it at all, just keep in the game and keep going!

Mr.Will

It is the difference from being dependent or independent.

I thought the boat picture was interesting.
It made me think if I was lost at sea - what would help me survive? To get discouraged and hope someone would come along and save me, or to get motivated to insure that I did.

I think before we worry about the big investment, we need to reassess why we are doing music? If we're doing it for social value, we'll invest our whole selves and every moment will be sheer bliss. If we're doing music to stroke our egos, Yuk. Take a number.

Hmm. I think then that only I can sabotage myself. Not needing to go around the world to find that out, it has worked that way for me. I am the most important person in the world. AND. . . people help me all the time because I have put myself in front of them. Telling them that I can do something or simply doing what I love in the openess oth view.
I have enjoyed catching up on your TED videos, Thanks !!

Turn what you're asking around - would it be reasonable if someone you didn't know asked you for the same help?

Your friend asking for $500,000 and a good agent is asking for the sorts of things he'd probably refuse to give a stranger. Now, maybe there are good reasons for such a refusal ("I don't have $500,000; I don't know how to be a good agent!"), but nonetheless, he's asking for something he wouldn't give.

If, on the other hand, he asks for advice like "where's the best place in town for an up-and-coming band to gig?", or "can you help me record a first album to sell at my gigs", he's more likely to get help. These are things he'd give if asked for, even if the answers are going to be a bit vague ("well, I can help, but I'm not really a sound engineer, so it'll sound bad. The Zodiac's been nice to me, but I'm not sure it's an ideal place for an up-and-coming band - the audience doesn't buy CDs, and there's a distinct lack of talent scouts.").

Basically, keep what you're asking for reasonable, and people are likely to help. Ask for the big bucks, and they're not.

Thank you, Derek. Nothing's more encouraging than a reality check

I do not do music but other creative work. I am not necessarily encouraged by the reality that no one will help-- I am not discouraged either. However, to understand why pleas for "help" are so common, keep in mind that much of the help needed is about things I do *not* want to learn and do-- internet marketing, promotion, and distribution skills have little to do with what I think of as my own core competencies, and even less to do with how I want to spend my precious remaining time on earth.

But of course one does what one must because, encouraging or otherwise, the fact is that no one will help until you are already successful and generating significant cash. You do your fellow artists a service by reminding us of this simple fact.

My take on this is that, if you really and honestly think about the successes you've had from working on it "by yourself", in most of those cases there would be another person involved that caused the success. That's not a cynical point of view at all, it's just my take on the reality of these situations.

The thing you have to remember is that your's and my "success" comes from the fact that our positive "directed energy" will rub off on that person in a positive way, and as such they have, at some point, allowed themselves to remain, or become more, open minded towards your project, and like a string tied to another string, things from there fell into place for your working relationship with that person.

That's something I've always felt, even before I turned into a musician at age 17.

-Ian S.
/minusian@gmail.com

Came from a site that talked about this (nobody is going to help you). And it doesn't discourage me. You have to expect little from people. It's at the center of who we are (egocentric); the always expected thought of "what's in it for me".

So with that said, I do what I can. Most people will come to you because they have an interest in you if you are any good. You have to make that happen, by yourself.

It makes me dig my feet in. If I really want to do something I will find a way. Sometimes it means rearranging priorities.

Wise, and master of himself,
Fearing not death, or chains, or lack of wealth,
Disdaining honors, firm against desire,
Within himself well-rounded and entire,
Beyond the reach of all external pain,
Against whom even fortune strikes in vain.
You're talking in your sleep again. — Derek

Hello Derek,

I think what you wrote here is just about 100% the hard cold reality. There are always exceptions to any reality, but very, very unlikely as you rightly point out. Social media I'm not too impressed with either. And I think quite honestly that one has just about as much chance being really successful in social media as finding an investor, Derek. I have music that many folks just love, and they are not my friends or relatives, but once again I'm unemployed now, and don't have the time to spend in social media to hopefully gather enough fans so that I could be successful, and I'd probably make very little money anyway. It's very frustrating when I know in my heart I have lots of music that folks could enjoy, but I have no way to make it lucrative without again spending money to make it sound right. A friend of mine on the great Acid Planet said to me how great it was to have folks listen to his songs, and I concur that is probably the only real audience I'll ever have, too. I am curious what you think about what I've written here, Derek? Please let me know. Best wishes to you in your creative endeavors, and thank you for your help in these music matters. Kindly, Clay Wilson

Hello Derek,

Again you are dead on in this column, but I am somewhat encouraged, although what I just wrote wouldn't indicate it. As I said social media is a long shot, too. You made your fortune being great at customer service among many other smart moves, Derek. Best always to you. Clay Wilson

Discouraged. It is also movtivating but not in a positive way. Makes me feel cold to the world. Like forget everyone I should just be selfish. When I'd rather we all work together for the greater good to help one another.(I know it's never going to happen) But honestly they don't like how selfish people are yet that's how we're trained to be. Take care of yourself, no one will. Why would you wanna help someone when no one is gonna help you? because that's how kids are gonna take it at first(that's a serious emotional sting). So now what are we doing. We're building a society based on excessive selfishness and trust issues. Sad it had to become this way. I still will work hard but I might feel the need to become a super villian. Like Doctor Evil! :p Had to end on a good note. Have a great day thanks for reading!

Someone is going to help me. YOU! You're helping me now! Thank You!

First off, my response has absolutely nothing to do with music.

Absolutely discouraged.

I don't know how to self-teach, or even where to find proven resources for learning (that don't cost an arm and a leg).

More than anything, I want to be able to learn to do tech things, specifically in the programming and electronics fields. But I'm already 33, have absolutely NO experience at all, and no money to enroll in classes anywhere.

I know there are self-taught people everywhere (and obviously, they aren't going to help. Nobody is). Unfortunately, I don't know how to self-teach at all, nor do I know where to find the resources that have to still be out there somewhere.

I'm honestly at a complete loss. How do I even get started?
Start with a good book! For the subject you want to learn, go to Amazon, and search for books on that subject. Look at ones that have mostly 5-star reviews. A good book will walk you through learning, like a good teacher. Starting from nothing, teaching a tiny bit, giving you confidence, making it seem easy, teaching you more, helping you understand the thought process, etc. — Derek

I feel really discouraged hearing that there is nobody to help me.

I like your opinion. I got same feeling. Nobody wants to help me. I trust only in my God, He will help me to live alone. And I try to help others.

I always knew people don't owe me a living,but you sure as Hell shouldn't rob me.

Dear , your question motivated me. Today i felt so helpless for not having money etc..but i am MD doctor...your question motivated me so much..i am going to start on my own...

I, myself, have always been the one to want to do things on my own and figure it out by myself. But over the years, i learned to let people help me from my parents. So would I be discouraged or encouraged? I'd have a slight discouragement with self pity, then my "I can do it myself, I don't need help." side will kick in and I automatically start planning a way to do everything step by step.

I have a mind that will figure out a way to do things and figure things out, I just have to sit back and think about it and overview it a few times to make sure I'm not going to get frustrated when I mess up. If I feel like one of my plans might turn over and not work, I have a Plan B. When people usually try to help me, they just do it for me and I ave no idea what they did to solve it. That's where I get frustrated and don't want help. If I were to mess up, it'd be on me; if someone else messed up something they were helping me with, it'd be on both of us. You see where I'm getting at?

The whole thing about nobody helping me is quite relieving once I think about it a second time. It's my freedom and like I said, I don't have to worry about anybody else making mistakes in MY situation. That's just more fuel to the fire, every time. I won't have anyone trying to put ideas into my head that distract me. I wouldn't have anybody trying to guide me. The only guiding I need is God. If I have God, the whole world is in my hands. I can do anything.

I am 50 years woman, living with a alcoholic addicted husband, with 2 children, but the younger son met an accident and died on 30.5.2013. I am only earning and look after my family. My elder son finished his BE Aeronautical without getting any job. For time being he is working in a call center for 9000 salary. Within our low salary i am struggling to commit all my needs, like mainly house rent, and other expenses. Nobody in my family and My husbands family to help me. Thats why i am feeling nobody is for me. I dont know how to express my feelings. Thankyou, With regards, Rose

It´s reality. Accepting reality feels much better than the dissapointment of being proved wrong by it.

Interesting.. Derek.
For me personally.. sometimes it feels discouraging because these days you are supposed to collaborate and network with other people and (you hope) that your network could help you.
But.. as we cannot always expect others to help, we have to get up and make it happen ourselves.

Lack of help doesn't bother me. But being bullied, mocked and cornered when I don't chose to help certain others becomes tiresome.

Love your writing, Derek. You're a true philosopher. I think the honest answer is that it is both depressing and empowering in various degrees at various times. Reminds me of something I read about people in survival situations. The ones who did best were self-reliant and took steps to save themselves instead of waiting for rescue. I'm sure those self-starters felt some fear and despair while acting to save themselves. And why shouldn't we when acting to "save" ourselves from whatever circumstances are holding us back? I think emotion is like color vision -- useful precisely because it's not "black and white": not either/or. So my answer to your question is both.

The boat will be ok once the tide comes in.

If it is to be, it is up to me.
☺ — Derek

If you're a conservative, this is very encouraging. If you're a liberal, very discouraging. That, in a nutshell, is why this country is so divided.

I think there is a huge difference between
no one is going to help you/me to: get up off your/my ass and do something productive.
Because when you/me get up off your/my ass and do something then people are there to help us. People help us ALL the time. We are not lone ships. I think what you are trying to say is no one is going to RESCUE you/me from being or making or taking action. Once you do this there is plenty of help. Otherwise frankly its really depressing.

I find it empowering knowing no one is going to help me. I used to think one day I'll get someone to back me and that one day did come and it became me backing me. If I know I'm the one who's gonna have to make something happen, peole pleasing goes out the door and I get to go at my own pace. It's freeing. It's more enjoyable and there's much more possibility that can appear. That's what I am present to. :)

This reality is definitely depressing on its face. However, it is ultimately useful. It brings clarity to how badly I really want to do something or not. If I want it bad enough, I'll find a way or die trying. It also helps me let go of certain dreams or ideas, when I have to measure its possibility with this reality and the sacrifice it may demand to achieve my objective. In short, this cruel reality brings great and often painful clarity.

For me, it's about collaboration, about someone else being involved. I work in response to others, as part of something bigger than myself. I don't know if that qualifies as "helping me", as opposed to "engaging with me". But I find that I need that engagement, I need that other involved, even if it's just to talk to and share news as progress happens.

Whenever we expect help from others, we should think "how many people received our help?" If it is none, return will also be none.

I Love It!! Beautiful way to look at the world. I appreciate the perspective!

Hi guys.. that your story make me guilt to someone to every day.
#never#give#up ciao

It's an empowering realization. There might be the initial discouragement but after the brief wallow in dispair, most of us will look inside and ask ourselves if we still want this and either decide it's not worth it or summon the strength to accomplish it ourselves.

No one's going to help you means no one's going to limit you either, to me.

Yes there will always be frustrations, and it's easy to look for a 'benevolent rescuer' in those times, but being rescued won't enable you to grow your own problem-solving skills (however painful the growth process is). And developing your problem-solving muscles will, I believe, yield the answers, eventually!

Great post.

Im not the best speller or writer but that's ok. I should be working right now but I heard you and Tim Ferris talking this morning which lead me over this way. Nobody is going to help me, but people inspire me:) inspire me to do things that will create a life that is part me and part all the other amazing people in the world....anyways, back to work for now--I read your Brian Eno quotes as well, he's next level!! Thank you for sharing your life and spirit with all of us!!

When I read this I thought of everyday life.

I suppose it depends on my age group. Even though I received very little help from my dysfunctional family, after I left home I still expected help from, say, government agencies when I went in their door. This was the age when my peers would commiserate with each other because they no longer lived at home where they could commiserate with their relatives.

As I aged I gave up on people. I no longer expect anyone, rich or poor, to try to be fair. I don't mean poor people don't believe in the rich being fair, I mean they don't believe in being fair either. So when people say the world isn't fair, I imagine a plate glass window along a sky scraper along the sidewalk. Mirroring the pedestrians.

At my age now I think more on merely working on my art, and less on having a career in art. When I am good enough to know deep down I am really skilled, then I will start to put my man-hours into marketing. But not yet. I'm content just to do the work and get better.

Hello Derek
I am Eunjin Jang from South Korea.
For me, If nobody's going to help me, I feel a bit sad but it could be true in our physical world.
I don't believe that idea though.
I wanna hear your details why you think the idea encourage you.

Thank you.
EJ

Hello. You are right i am know 19 years old i realized that nobody is going to help me not even my parents. only i can save myself thats why i am learning and working really hard. Btw can u give me some advice please? i am 19 years old and i am a third year student at university. I am majoring in English literature. However, recently i have found out that i am passionate about law, debate, and politics.
Do you think it’s possible for me to change my field or somehow combine my love for English with law and politics? I’m a bit confused about which path to take, and I would really appreciate your advice on how to follow my passion without giving up everything I’ve already worked for